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Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

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Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#121

Post by AlfeG »

tmh88j wrote: post #62
gregmac wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Bricked" is relative, depending on your skill level. For some consumers, if recovery mode doesn't work that might be the end of line. However, there are more advanced users that can access the storage via another system and fix it there, hook up via serial port or JTAG and flash new firmware, or even desolder and replace chips. On the far other end of the spectrum, there's going to be people that consider "doesn't s…

>"Bricked" is relative, depending on your skill level. >For some consumers, if recovery mode doesn't work that might be the end of line. If you want to go by that rule, for a large number of people simply getting a virus would mean their computer is bricked. I think it's safe to assume "bricked" means it's a hardware level issue.

Usually it mean that device is not function anymore. Some time ago were very easy to brick phones while flashimg them. Its not hardware, it just complete mess in software.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#122

Post by diebeforei485 »

harikb wrote: post #74
saagarjha wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reinstalling the OS shouldn't wipe your data partition…

At least in the default install, it is all one partition. Moreover, if you had disk encryption or something, getting the recovery keys would be a risk even you had followed all the right steps. Granted, none of these are good excuses for not doing TM backups since those are so easy. But just saying people could lose data and not have an easy way to recover it.

This is not true in Catalina.

1. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210650

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#123

Post by andrekandre »

cutler wrote: post #49

Well, that's it for Catalina then. Although I really want full Xcode 11.4/Swift UI/Swift 5.2 and my MacBook Pro a Catalina upgrade is just too much of a risk. On top of all the previous Catalina woes Apple should be hanging their heads in shame.

> Xcode 11.4

your probably not missing much, there are some serious regressings in that release, for example [0]

[0] https://forums.swift.org/t/swift-5-2-struct-property-wrapper...

(for me, cant make release builds because the compiler crashes... sigh...)

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#124

Post by craftinator »

zimpenfish wrote: post #115
dragonwriter wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dictionary definitions are not formal definitions, they are attempts to capture usage. And they are almost invariably approximations except when explicitly specifying otherwise, and outside of the the more lavish of the unabridged dictionaries are also almost in invariably simplified, both in the number of definitions of any term presented and often the individual definitions, for brevity at the expense of accuracy.

> Dictionary definitions are not formal definitions, they are attempts to capture usage. But because they're "captured usage", they're generally what people would understand by the term.

Yes, but to use a term in a technically relevant way, it needs to be tied to reality; if not, it's just marketing jargon or pseudo-tech speak. The best technical definition for this case is not by how it is most commonly understood, but how it most commonly applies. Dragonwriter makes a compelling case in that it is most commonly true that a user won't have access to the specialized hardware required to "unbrick" the device.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#125

Post by Florin_Andrei »

gregmac wrote: post #45
ObsoleteNerd wrote: post #4

It's not "bricked" if you can fix it in Recovery Mode. Still bad that it's happening, but the term "bricked" is thrown around so flippantly these days. If a piece of tech is bricked, it's not recoverable at all.

"Bricked" is relative, depending on your skill level. For some consumers, if recovery mode doesn't work that might be the end of line. However, there are more advanced users that can access the storage via another system and fix it there, hook up via serial port or JTAG and flash new firmware, or even desolder and replace chips. On the far other end of the spectrum, there's going to be people that consider "doesn't s…

> "Bricked" is relative, depending on your skill level.

According to postmodernism, everything is like that.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#126

Post by GauntletWizard »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #120
GauntletWizard wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't matter what the security community does - The security fixes are often obvious enough in the binary delta (Comparing all of the changed files on one system to another) that cracking teams can discover the flaws that were fixed within 24h, and have exploits available in 48. That's what drives the pace of these updates - The very real fear that fixes reveal your hand to the malware community.

Apple has beta releases including a public beta program. Don't these beta releases also reveal information to the malware community?

Beta programs are about new features, not about security fixes. Those that are included are typically incidental. They're more likely to be deliberately held back/in a separate branch from beta programs so as not to reveal them.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#127

Post by Florin_Andrei »

kbumsik wrote: post #33
oneplane wrote: post #2

Odd, this seems to be happening across the industry and is now either reported better or just more prevalent. Besides bricks (well, is it a brick if you can recover?) we have seen post-update BSOD's, data loss, browsers going bad, settings getting reset on various operating systems of the big vendors out there. I know that it isn't like software 'used to be perfect' but this type of defect feels bigger than it used t…

I guess two reasons: 1. The OS update policies became more "agile". Both Windows and macOS starts to update the OS more often than ever. macOS moved to an annual update from biannual, Windows 10 switched to a subscription-like model. 2. They laid off the testing team and stopped testing on actual PCs in favor of VMs. [1] It makes sense considering the broken updates are often more low-level bugs that cannot be caught…

> They laid off the testing team

Must be good for the bottom line.

The cost is absorbed by the unlucky users.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#128

Post by FireBeyond »

Shank wrote: post #114
apfsx wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do T2 Mac’s have DFU mode like iPhone’s? If so that’s news to me and pretty interesting.

Yes. It’s essentially an ARM A-series chip — it has firmware (BridgeOS) and does have a DFU mode. See https://help.apple.com/configurator/mac/2.7.1/#/apd0020c3dc2

Best have your spare MacBook available to do it!

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#129

Post by okareaman »

sv9 wrote: post #67

I'm consistently amazed by HN's ability to take the most meaningless, inconsequential part of an article (the scroll behavior, the whitespace, the usage of the word "bricked"), and nitpick it to hell and back instead of actually discussing the article. Bravo.

You've described the best part of HN for me because I can always count on learning something super obscure but alos super interesting that nobody else would have thought of.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#130

Post by tmh88j »

AlfeG wrote: post #121
tmh88j wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Bricked" is relative, depending on your skill level. >For some consumers, if recovery mode doesn't work that might be the end of line. If you want to go by that rule, for a large number of people simply getting a virus would mean their computer is bricked. I think it's safe to assume "bricked" means it's a hardware level issue.

Usually it mean that device is not function anymore. Some time ago were very easy to brick phones while flashimg them. Its not hardware, it just complete mess in software.

>Usually it mean that device is not function anymore. Some time ago were very easy to brick phones while flashimg them. Its not hardware, it just complete mess in software.

Failing to make a back up of the software on a device which you're attempting to hack and subsequently destroying hardly seems relevant to an auto update locking you out. That's more like changing your password and forgetting it, or back in the day formatting your hard drive without a copy of XP to re-install. I don't know which phone you're referring to, but every phone I've rooted has been salvageable.

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