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Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

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Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#111

Post by gns24 »

hanche wrote: post #102
teilo wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar issue to yours when I manually ran this update on my 16". It froze on a black screen, after doing the BridgeOS part of the update. I had to force it down. When it started, it continued the update and, thankfully, everything worked. However, I'm still having kernel panics after the Supplemental update. But interestingly, they only happen when the machine is supposedly sleeping, with the shell closed. I…

Even a supposedly sleeping Mac will wake up from time to time, doing exactly what I don’t know. But I consistently see it in the logs.

It will sync email and other things so that everything is already downloaded when you wake it up. See https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204032

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#112

Post by tannhaeuser »

sv9 wrote: post #67

I'm consistently amazed by HN's ability to take the most meaningless, inconsequential part of an article (the scroll behavior, the whitespace, the usage of the word "bricked"), and nitpick it to hell and back instead of actually discussing the article. Bravo.

It's also used as a tactic to derange a discussion and get offtopic top comments to bore away or otherwise trap casual, click-happy readers. Not saying it is in this particular case.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#113

Post by dodobirdlord »

Avi-D-coder wrote: post #86

Why is Catalina so unstable, were there major architectural changes? I know they broke Nix, ssh and a few others, but why?

There were some fairly significant changes. Two big ones off the top of my head were dropping support for 32bit binaries, and moving the entire kernel to read-only memory. Both imply broad changes.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#114

Post by Shank »

apfsx wrote: post #94
floatingatoll wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this issue only affect T2 Macs and MacBooks? If so, maybe a DFU restore is needed.

Do T2 Mac’s have DFU mode like iPhone’s? If so that’s news to me and pretty interesting.

Yes. It’s essentially an ARM A-series chip — it has firmware (BridgeOS) and does have a DFU mode. See https://help.apple.com/configurator/mac/2.7.1/#/apd0020c3dc2

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#115

Post by zimpenfish »

dragonwriter wrote: post #71
NaOH wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Granted there's no formal definition of "bricked" it usually means a hardware requirement to restore functionality. From Dictionary.app that comes standard with the Mac: "a smartphone or other electronic device that has completely ceased to function"

Dictionary definitions are not formal definitions, they are attempts to capture usage. And they are almost invariably approximations except when explicitly specifying otherwise, and outside of the the more lavish of the unabridged dictionaries are also almost in invariably simplified, both in the number of definitions of any term presented and often the individual definitions, for brevity at the expense of accuracy.

> Dictionary definitions are not formal definitions, they are attempts to capture usage.

But because they're "captured usage", they're generally what people would understand by the term.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#116

Post by dodobirdlord »

wuunderbar wrote: post #19
ravenstine wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I want to wake up in the morning to find my laptop not working? This issue is exactly why I only occasionally install updates, and if I do I wait a while for the canaries to leave the coal mine. I've been a user of macOS, distros of Linux, and Windows for years, and in every one of them there was the inevitable update that made the OS unusable. It happens rarely but, when it does, it's a miserable experienc…

Interested in hearing about a Linux update that made the system unusable.

Last time I tried to update a Linux install I was trying to go from Ubuntu 16.04 to 18.04, LTS to LTS. It crashed during the update and corrupted the initial install, throwing me back to grub to try to undo the damage.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#118

Post by encom »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #25

I think companies are pushing updates way too aggressively to those who have auto update on. Is there some reason why phased release isn't more common among OS/firmware updates? Auto update does not have to mean "update my device the day new versions are out". Edit: Is this related to public disclosure of security bugs? If so, the community should change their standard so that public disclosure doesn't happen until a…

What OS X and Windows, IOS, Android and probably lots of others need, is Long Term Support releases. I'm so sick and tired of my phone and computer switching up major features and UI every year, because some UX person wants to not get fired.

Releasing a new major version of your OS yearly is insane.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#119

Post by diebeforei485 »

cesarb wrote: post #40
diebeforei485 wrote: post #25

I think companies are pushing updates way too aggressively to those who have auto update on. Is there some reason why phased release isn't more common among OS/firmware updates? Auto update does not have to mean "update my device the day new versions are out". Edit: Is this related to public disclosure of security bugs? If so, the community should change their standard so that public disclosure doesn't happen until a…

> If so, the community should change their standard so that public disclosure doesn't happen until a week after the update is available. The update being available is public disclosure! For an experienced reverse engineer, comparing the files before and after the update is usually enough to pinpoint the security issue.

Don't most iOS bugs these days require multiple security exploits in order to work? I'm not sure it's always that simple to find a reliable exploit just based on what code has changed (because lots of code has changed).

If there is an obvious to find, easily-exploitable bug, the update could be pushed to everyone (the way updates are pushed today).

There is a balance to strike here. If issues with auto update cause enough people turn auto update off, I'm not sure it's helping security.

Finally - Apple already has a beta programs including public betas. Are those binaries not already used to find exploits?

Essentially, I'm not convinced a phased update (with public security disclosure slightly later) would lead to worse security than we have today.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#120

Post by diebeforei485 »

GauntletWizard wrote: post #41
diebeforei485 wrote: post #25

I think companies are pushing updates way too aggressively to those who have auto update on. Is there some reason why phased release isn't more common among OS/firmware updates? Auto update does not have to mean "update my device the day new versions are out". Edit: Is this related to public disclosure of security bugs? If so, the community should change their standard so that public disclosure doesn't happen until a…

Doesn't matter what the security community does - The security fixes are often obvious enough in the binary delta (Comparing all of the changed files on one system to another) that cracking teams can discover the flaws that were fixed within 24h, and have exploits available in 48. That's what drives the pace of these updates - The very real fear that fixes reveal your hand to the malware community.

Apple has beta releases including a public beta program. Don't these beta releases also reveal information to the malware community?
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