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Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

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Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#51

Post by nrp »

oneplane wrote: post #2

Odd, this seems to be happening across the industry and is now either reported better or just more prevalent. Besides bricks (well, is it a brick if you can recover?) we have seen post-update BSOD's, data loss, browsers going bad, settings getting reset on various operating systems of the big vendors out there. I know that it isn't like software 'used to be perfect' but this type of defect feels bigger than it used t…

I don't think it's more prevalent. I think it's more notable precisely because we've gotten so used to our devices and data being stable. Don't forget that in the past it was pretty much expected you'd lose or break something when upgrading your OS, and that you could pretty much count on physical hard drive failure resulting in data loss at some point in the life of your PC. BSOD's especially were almost certainly more prevalent in the bad old days of Windows. Looking just at Mac, don't forget about when PRAM resets were part of the normal debug flow.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#52

Post by d99kris »

I have a MacBook 12" 2017 and have not encountered any serious issue with 10.15.4 supplemental update, yet..

I do however note that when adjusting volume in the status bar the UI dragbar position is very jumpy, which gives a rather unpolished impression.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#53

Post by [deleted] »

userbinator wrote: post #43
apostacy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first thing I always do is disable auto-updates. Auto updating does not deserve the level of trust we put it in it. Just a few months ago, Google's creepy invisible updater rendered people's Apples unbootable if they didn't have SIP enabled, which many people including myself have good reason not to[1]. Thankfully, I had already blocked Keystone Agent with an immutable folder. This auto-updating treadmill we've b…

This auto-updating treadmill we've been sold on is really beneficial for developers, but it causes some major problems for end-users. How so? If anything, I think it's just as bad for developers, who expect a stable foundation to be able to build on.

[deleted]

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#55

Post by sillyconvalley »

I'm consistently amazed by HN's ability to take the most meaningless, inconsequential part of an article (the scroll behavior, the whitespace, the usage of the word "bricked"), and nitpick it to hell and back instead of actually discussing the article.

Bravo.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#56

Post by kingbirdy »

ObsoleteNerd wrote: post #4

It's not "bricked" if you can fix it in Recovery Mode. Still bad that it's happening, but the term "bricked" is thrown around so flippantly these days. If a piece of tech is bricked, it's not recoverable at all.

At least in the Android world, I've seen folks make the distinction between a "soft" or "hard" brick, with the former being fixable via a recovery mode or other software method, while the latter would require a hardware modification or may be truly bricked.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#57

Post by apostacy »

userbinator wrote: post #43
apostacy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first thing I always do is disable auto-updates. Auto updating does not deserve the level of trust we put it in it. Just a few months ago, Google's creepy invisible updater rendered people's Apples unbootable if they didn't have SIP enabled, which many people including myself have good reason not to[1]. Thankfully, I had already blocked Keystone Agent with an immutable folder. This auto-updating treadmill we've b…

This auto-updating treadmill we've been sold on is really beneficial for developers, but it causes some major problems for end-users. How so? If anything, I think it's just as bad for developers, who expect a stable foundation to be able to build on.

Because forcing everything to be evergreen means that they only have to support the latest version. They can also corral users away from less common and older platforms.

One thing I really don't like about it, is how it forces you to spend more money on the latest hardware you don't need. Something is broken when I can't use a three year old phone to pay a parking ticket in my city. And they can just scoff at me and say that it is my fault for daring to go two years without buying a new device.

Being evergreen means that any vulnerabilities in DRM and platform integrity are swept away under a tide of updates. As long as you are constantly pushing updates, and making it very hard for people to use an out of date version, you don't have to worry nearly as much.

Finally, in the bigger picture, it strategically makes sense because it keeps your competitors aiming at a moving target.

Why do you think it is easier to install an older operating system than it is to install an older version of Chrome? Do you really think it is solely about your security and safety? Of course not. They don't care about end user security or privacy nearly as much as they do about keeping their platform secured. In fact, it is still easy to buy out a trusted Chrome extension and attack users. There is still no possible way to disable extension updates. Google knows about this and they won't change their architecture in any major way; they just keep the updates and revocations rolling and rolling, and any users who are hurt by this are an acceptable loss.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#58

Post by ivan_gammel »

cesarb wrote: post #40
diebeforei485 wrote: post #25

I think companies are pushing updates way too aggressively to those who have auto update on. Is there some reason why phased release isn't more common among OS/firmware updates? Auto update does not have to mean "update my device the day new versions are out". Edit: Is this related to public disclosure of security bugs? If so, the community should change their standard so that public disclosure doesn't happen until a…

> If so, the community should change their standard so that public disclosure doesn't happen until a week after the update is available. The update being available is public disclosure! For an experienced reverse engineer, comparing the files before and after the update is usually enough to pinpoint the security issue.

No, it is not necessarily so. First phase of rollout can happen to the users and businesses under NDA.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#59

Post by baryphonic »

This is interesting. I sat down at my machine on Thursday morning, and it was entirely unresponsive. It had warned me about installing updates the previous evening, but I've done this many times without an issue, and regardless, they are always complete by morning. I waited a minute or two for any sign of life (beyond the fans running), and then held power. I heard the unpleasant sound of the fans spinning up to high RPM and then shutting off rapidly. I waited a few seconds and then held power again. The machine showed a slow progress bar, but then finally I saw "26 minutes remaining" below it. I was pretty surprised that the update was running, but I figured it had just started late or hung, and ran a bit later into the working hours.

This article makes me reevaluate that thought.

Coincidentally, one of my colleagues had warned the team about installing macOS updates, since he was having repeated issues with kernel panics on the original 10.15.4 update.

I hope Apple can get some of this together a little better going forward.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#60

Post by virtualwhys »

therealx wrote: post #27
wuunderbar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interested in hearing about a Linux update that made the system unusable.

Are you kidding? I've had config files overwritten, x11/wayland/whatever just break after an update, wirelesss/power drivers just...change, sometimes to the point of having to recover it from a mono-screen tty, or updates fuck up the fs or something else that requires me to hit up single user mode.

Have been on Fedora for 10 years; the only thing that "reliably" breaks is the proprietary Nvidia driver.

Otherwise Linux is pretty damn rock solid. These days "it just works" applies to Linux more than any other OS.

And with the new Nvidia-less Dell Precision 5400 the system runs cool and quiet to boot.

Linux isn't what it used to be...

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