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Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

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Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#41

Post by GauntletWizard »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #25

I think companies are pushing updates way too aggressively to those who have auto update on. Is there some reason why phased release isn't more common among OS/firmware updates? Auto update does not have to mean "update my device the day new versions are out". Edit: Is this related to public disclosure of security bugs? If so, the community should change their standard so that public disclosure doesn't happen until a…

Doesn't matter what the security community does - The security fixes are often obvious enough in the binary delta (Comparing all of the changed files on one system to another) that cracking teams can discover the flaws that were fixed within 24h, and have exploits available in 48. That's what drives the pace of these updates - The very real fear that fixes reveal your hand to the malware community.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#42

Post by randrews »

bromuro wrote: post #8
ObsoleteNerd wrote: post #4

It's not "bricked" if you can fix it in Recovery Mode. Still bad that it's happening, but the term "bricked" is thrown around so flippantly these days. If a piece of tech is bricked, it's not recoverable at all.

English is not my native language and this is the first time I hear about this “bricked” expression. What does it mean?

What everyone else said, but also, it's a particular kind of turned-into-a-brick: you can render something useless just by running a few hundred volts through it; "bricked" means that it's still functioning in some way, but because of a configuration problem it isn't listening to external input and never will again (because it also can't hear any input that might fix the configuration).

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#43

Post by userbinator »

apostacy wrote: post #36
bluedino wrote: post #6

Are people not using auto-update?

The first thing I always do is disable auto-updates. Auto updating does not deserve the level of trust we put it in it. Just a few months ago, Google's creepy invisible updater rendered people's Apples unbootable if they didn't have SIP enabled, which many people including myself have good reason not to[1]. Thankfully, I had already blocked Keystone Agent with an immutable folder. This auto-updating treadmill we've b…

This auto-updating treadmill we've been sold on is really beneficial for developers, but it causes some major problems for end-users.

How so? If anything, I think it's just as bad for developers, who expect a stable foundation to be able to build on.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#44

Post by bangonkeyboard »

ObsoleteNerd wrote: post #4

It's not "bricked" if you can fix it in Recovery Mode. Still bad that it's happening, but the term "bricked" is thrown around so flippantly these days. If a piece of tech is bricked, it's not recoverable at all.

Here is one procedure for possibly recovering an affected Mac which cannot boot: https://mrmacintosh.com/how-to-restore-bridgeos-on-a-t2-mac-...

It requires a separate, recent Mac, involves arcane combinations of specific ports, keys, and timings, relies on luck and voodoo, and ultimately may not even work.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#45

Post by gregmac »

ObsoleteNerd wrote: post #4

It's not "bricked" if you can fix it in Recovery Mode. Still bad that it's happening, but the term "bricked" is thrown around so flippantly these days. If a piece of tech is bricked, it's not recoverable at all.

"Bricked" is relative, depending on your skill level.

For some consumers, if recovery mode doesn't work that might be the end of line.

However, there are more advanced users that can access the storage via another system and fix it there, hook up via serial port or JTAG and flash new firmware, or even desolder and replace chips.

On the far other end of the spectrum, there's going to be people that consider "doesn't show the normal UI after I press the power button" as bricked.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#46

Post by therein »

cesarb wrote: post #40
diebeforei485 wrote: post #25

I think companies are pushing updates way too aggressively to those who have auto update on. Is there some reason why phased release isn't more common among OS/firmware updates? Auto update does not have to mean "update my device the day new versions are out". Edit: Is this related to public disclosure of security bugs? If so, the community should change their standard so that public disclosure doesn't happen until a…

> If so, the community should change their standard so that public disclosure doesn't happen until a week after the update is available. The update being available is public disclosure! For an experienced reverse engineer, comparing the files before and after the update is usually enough to pinpoint the security issue.

I can't seem to be able to find a link to it right now but there was even this one project/website that dumped the bindiffs for each Windows Update and their disassembly.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#47

Post by irjustin »

gregmac wrote: post #45
ObsoleteNerd wrote: post #4

It's not "bricked" if you can fix it in Recovery Mode. Still bad that it's happening, but the term "bricked" is thrown around so flippantly these days. If a piece of tech is bricked, it's not recoverable at all.

"Bricked" is relative, depending on your skill level. For some consumers, if recovery mode doesn't work that might be the end of line. However, there are more advanced users that can access the storage via another system and fix it there, hook up via serial port or JTAG and flash new firmware, or even desolder and replace chips. On the far other end of the spectrum, there's going to be people that consider "doesn't s…

Granted there's no formal definition of "bricked" it usually means a hardware requirement to restore functionality.

I'd like to keep it this way even to the general lay person. Because if you need hardware the barrier to entry goes up significantly.

Agreed that 'bricked' is not the right term here.

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#48

Post by Osiris »

ObsoleteNerd wrote: post #4

It's not "bricked" if you can fix it in Recovery Mode. Still bad that it's happening, but the term "bricked" is thrown around so flippantly these days. If a piece of tech is bricked, it's not recoverable at all.

I agree. Back in the day I often installed custom ROMs on my Android phones and there was a distinction between needing to use recovery mode or losing your data vs "bricking", literally meaning that you turned your phone into a brick.

There were some "unbricking" guides but those usually required hardware voodoo, soldering, etc., things that most people couldn't do.

Now it's a clickbait term that has lost its original meaning of "you now own an expensive paper weight".

Re: Nasty macOS flaw is bricking MacBooks: Don't install this update

#50

Post by LilBytes »

saagarjha wrote: post #28
vondur wrote: post #26

Well, not bricked you just lose your data. That data that most people don't have backups for.

Where does it say that you lose your data?

I was hit by this bug, my entire unit was fucked and I had to use Recovery over the Internet to reinstall a fresh OS on my 2019 MacBook Pro. Nearly everything on my Mac was dot sourced, on Git or using my local NAS' TimeMachine share. All the same, all my data on the Mac was still lost and had to be restored using backup.
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