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Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

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Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#101

Post by georgewsinger »

ianai wrote: post #98
georgewsinger wrote: post #9

In case people are curious what it's like to work in VR, here's a demo of me using Simula: https://youtu.be/FWLuwG91HnI I would argue that working in VR is fundamentally superior to working in PCs/laptops. It's basically 10x the screens, focus, and work immersion. Simula's text quality is also very good (getting around the eye fatigue present in older VR Desktops).

Productivity use for VR is way more compelling to me than any game I’ve ever seen. Maybe that’s why it’s never taken off. We probably need to have an email client people want to use in VR and an IDE before we worry about gamers.

Totally agreed. Our project's "secret": most people think that the future of VR is in games & entertainment, but it's actually in office work.

I never would have even purchased a VR headset had it not been for the promise to start working on a productivity environment. But before we can start building the killer VR office apps, we have to get the basic 2D apps working crisply/perfectly, IMO.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#102

Post by gpm »

netsharc wrote: post #74
kanetw wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do actually plan to design standalone portable devices as a longer-term business plan. The AR idea is really interesting. We'll try replacing the background with "reality" as seen from the HMD cameras.

If could contribute an idea, I wonder if one can make the camera watch your surroundings but with people recognizer that would notify you if someone is approaching with the intent to interact with you, and maybe show a notification or an approaching avatar. It would be neat in an office scenario. The next step would be a screen in the real world telling your visitor whether you're busy or interruptible, and a button…

This seems like the job for another program that you run simultaneously, not the window manager. Unless there are problems with having multiple programs make use of the camera or something.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#103

Post by haolez »

georgewsinger wrote: post #87
haolez wrote: post #84

Not being able to see the keyboard would push my touch typing skills to the limit! I hope it's doable, because this seems incredibly useful.

When touch typing fails, Simula has a mouse & keyboard view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5c3Hfp8Hcw Right now it's binded to `Super + w`.

Amazing! I had no idea this could be done in the current generation of VR devices.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#104

Post by georgewsinger »

viklove wrote: post #51

Seems like this doesn't have any relation to xrdesktop[1], which doesn't have mouse support! Really glad to see they have it here, any VR workspace is completely unusable if I have to use motion controls to simulate a mouse. Will definitely be trying this out tonight. [1] https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xrdesktop/xrdesktop

xrdesktop has a very talented team of hackers working on it (so I have no doubt they'll fix the mouse issue!).

Our approach with mouse cursors has been to assign every window its own mouse cursor. This is possible in Simula since the active window is the one that the user is currently gazing at, so that -- for example -- if you gaze at one window and move its cursor, it won't affect the other windows' cursors. We also allow users to control mouse cursors with their eye gaze (presently bounded to `Super + Apostrophe`), which is a good productivity boost.

In fact, you can do everything in Simula with just the keyboard (no mouse or VR controllers needed): move windows, move the mouse cursor, click the mouse cursor, etc. Once you learn the shortcuts, it's very quick.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#105

Post by sfj »

What about an underwater setup where the VR headset is merged into a scuba mask?

Eventually we could move on to having tubes implanted for feeding and waste. You could stay in there indefinitely, forget you ever even existed outside the simulation...

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#106

Post by DanBC »

carapace wrote: post #80

Been thinking about VR workspaces since sometime in the '80's. Broadly, they suck. It seems so cool but in practice VR adds pointless overhead to efficient UI. Windows with affine transformations suck at their one job . Very few people use Second Life as an IDE. The big win, as far as I can tell, would be to engage the user's spacial memory. (There is a small but non-zero niche for 3D visualization of complex systems…

I used to love tinkering with the kinds of interfaces showcased on Nooface, but I wouldn't ever stick with one for actual proper use.

https://web.archive.org/web/20111102002100/http://nooface.ne...

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#107

Post by thecrumb »

I remember seeing something like this during one of the early MagicLeap demos and was intrigued. If the headset was lightweight enough this would rock. In that video the screen remained in 'front' of the viewer and he could swipe left or right to switch screens.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#108

Post by echelon »

carapace wrote: post #80

Been thinking about VR workspaces since sometime in the '80's. Broadly, they suck. It seems so cool but in practice VR adds pointless overhead to efficient UI. Windows with affine transformations suck at their one job . Very few people use Second Life as an IDE. The big win, as far as I can tell, would be to engage the user's spacial memory. (There is a small but non-zero niche for 3D visualization of complex systems…

They might suck right now, but this is a relatively nascent application of the technology.

Wait until resolution improves and we break out of the "desktop" paradigm. We could have a collection of unlimited windows and tabs that exist in a continuum around us, and we could use gestures to organize and surface the contextually relevant ones.

We won't need a bulky multi-monitor setup, and we could work remotely nearly anywhere. Imagine carrying your workspace with you.

> The big win, as far as I can tell, would be to engage the user's spacial memory.

Absolutely! Physical workspaces and work benches are incredibly functional because we are spatial animals. Breaking out of the limitations of using a screen could unlock more of our senses for use in problem solving.

I'm extremely excited about this technology. It will be great for software engineers, creatives (2d and 3d artists), mechanical engineering, CAD, ... you name it.

I really hope this keeps getting pushed forward. While I'm using all of my spare cycles on a tangentially-related problem domain, I'd be more than happy to donate money and ideas. This technology will be a dream come true if it continues to mature.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#110

Post by kroltan »

airstrike wrote: post #72
georgewsinger wrote: post #9

In case people are curious what it's like to work in VR, here's a demo of me using Simula: https://youtu.be/FWLuwG91HnI I would argue that working in VR is fundamentally superior to working in PCs/laptops. It's basically 10x the screens, focus, and work immersion. Simula's text quality is also very good (getting around the eye fatigue present in older VR Desktops).

Have you considered using a mounted Leap Motion controller for interacting with the UI? Would allow you to spin the windows around without having to spin yourself, for prolonged periods of "switching over to the right" for instance. Could use a different gesture to move around the 3D space too allowing you to navigate to different pockets of work

Good idea! You could do that with a spare controller or a Vive tracker too.
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