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Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

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Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#71

Post by nsxwolf »

skratlo wrote: post #12
georgewsinger wrote: post #9

In case people are curious what it's like to work in VR, here's a demo of me using Simula: https://youtu.be/FWLuwG91HnI I would argue that working in VR is fundamentally superior to working in PCs/laptops. It's basically 10x the screens, focus, and work immersion. Simula's text quality is also very good (getting around the eye fatigue present in older VR Desktops).

Well looking at the video, I mean, I can have dozens workspaces with hundreds of windows (if I need to) and navigate them with moving just my fingers, whereas you are apparently breaking your neck to navigate more than 3 windows. I think what you're doing is cool and has to be done for the sake of exploration, but I would really, really focus on navigation. Also, how are you supposed to focus on text, when reading or…

There is no wiggling. That wiggling you see in videos is your head movements not being in sync with the wearer’s head movements. You’re doing it right now, your brain is just anticipating and compensating for it.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#72

Post by airstrike »

georgewsinger wrote: post #9

In case people are curious what it's like to work in VR, here's a demo of me using Simula: https://youtu.be/FWLuwG91HnI I would argue that working in VR is fundamentally superior to working in PCs/laptops. It's basically 10x the screens, focus, and work immersion. Simula's text quality is also very good (getting around the eye fatigue present in older VR Desktops).

Have you considered using a mounted Leap Motion controller for interacting with the UI?

Would allow you to spin the windows around without having to spin yourself, for prolonged periods of "switching over to the right" for instance.

Could use a different gesture to move around the 3D space too allowing you to navigate to different pockets of work

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#73

Post by entropicdrifter »

fcoury wrote: post #63
andybak wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're stuck I can name a few dozen other cool things to do. It's not like Alyx is the only reason to own a VR headset.

Please do share, I am new to this world as I just got a headset.

Get Beat Saber, git gud, lose weight because suddenly you're doing aerobic exercise for fun

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#74

Post by netsharc »

kanetw wrote: post #64
cesarb wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An interesting potential for VR would be alternative portable form factors. The laptop form factor is mostly dictated by the shape and size of the screen; since with VR the screen is moved to the HMD, this would no longer be a restriction. The webcam view is also interesting; if it were "inverted" so that, instead of being confined to a window, it was outside of all windows (that is, the background "wallpaper"), it w…

We do actually plan to design standalone portable devices as a longer-term business plan. The AR idea is really interesting. We'll try replacing the background with "reality" as seen from the HMD cameras.

If could contribute an idea, I wonder if one can make the camera watch your surroundings but with people recognizer that would notify you if someone is approaching with the intent to interact with you, and maybe show a notification or an approaching avatar. It would be neat in an office scenario. The next step would be a screen in the real world telling your visitor whether you're busy or interruptible, and a button the visitor can push to "knock on your door".

So that's the future, maybe: cubicle dwellers get their own VR offices...

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#75

Post by noir_lord »

fcoury wrote: post #63
andybak wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're stuck I can name a few dozen other cool things to do. It's not like Alyx is the only reason to own a VR headset.

Please do share, I am new to this world as I just got a headset.

If you like car racing sims Project Cars 2 with a good wheel/pedal (G92/G920 etc) is sublime, like really good fun.

PavlovVR is CS:GO in VR and done really well, hilariously good fun.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#77

Post by netsharc »

vsareto wrote: post #42
ollifi wrote: post #24

Looks cool and will try it out. That said, these things always feel like old paradigm stuffed in to new technology. Bit similar like when film was new people kept using it to record theater. It took years to come up with editing, not having to start scene by people entering the stage etc. Now that we have unlimited spatial space to manipulate the thing we come up with is to fill it with 2d screens.

There aren't a lot of jobs that can really use the 'space' provided by VR. I think the adoption here would have to drastically outpace multiple monitors and OS workspaces and keyboard shortcuts. I can easily get to 10-20 tabs in VS Code or a browser, but my attention is only really ever on one at a time. If I have to search through them, I'll have to do that on a monitor or in VR. I might be able to organize better i…

I can imagine a web editor with some "3d space" flair. You have your HTML/JS/CSS editor in front of you, but imagine strands connecting CSS rules to the HTML elements in the preview window, which is floating slightly to your right. Or the page being previewed can even be the size of a 5-storey building which seems to be standing across the street.

For another interesting use case, how about a 3d debugger that lets you follow a program flow over multiple classes and stacks...

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#78

Post by ggreer »

kanetw wrote: post #20
skratlo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well looking at the video, I mean, I can have dozens workspaces with hundreds of windows (if I need to) and navigate them with moving just my fingers, whereas you are apparently breaking your neck to navigate more than 3 windows. I think what you're doing is cool and has to be done for the sake of exploration, but I would really, really focus on navigation. Also, how are you supposed to focus on text, when reading or…

Navigation is one of the things we definitely need to improve upon. I think the wiggling is actually kind of natural -- you don't notice your head or eye movements when you do them automatically, but it might be exacerbated in VR. The fixing is an interesting idea, we'll try it out. I'm a bit worried it might feel weird in VR.

YouTube has support for VR videos. If you could record & render such that people with headsets could watch a session, that might help with interest and adoption.

I think navigation needs eye tracking, which sadly no headset currently supports. Focus-follows-gaze would be a game changer.

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#79

Post by seanmcdirmid »

kanetw wrote: post #22
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s weird, wasn’t Simula 2 the first OO language? This Simula doesn’t seem to be related at all. I get name reuse, but this Simula is one of those huge milestones in computer science.

Unfortunate name collision, and we never got around to renaming ourselves. I'll bring it up with George.

What is the reason you went with the name in the first place? Simula is the first part of simulation (which Simula was specialized in expressing), but I'm not seeing a simulation aspect here. Maybe an inside design inspiration relating to VR and simulating reality? Or maybe named after a village in Estonia?

Re: Simula: A VR window manager for Linux

#80

Post by carapace »

Been thinking about VR workspaces since sometime in the '80's. Broadly, they suck. It seems so cool but in practice VR adds pointless overhead to efficient UI. Windows with affine transformations suck at their one job. Very few people use Second Life as an IDE.

The big win, as far as I can tell, would be to engage the user's spacial memory. (There is a small but non-zero niche for 3D visualization of complex systems: weather, large molecule, etc.) You're going to want to combine "memory palace" with "zooming" UI in a kind of pseudo-3D (I think of it as 2.618...D but the exact fractal dimension isn't important I don't think.) Then infuse with Brenda Laurel's "Computers as Theatre"...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Life

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooming_user_interface

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenda_Laurel - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/239018.Computers_as_Thea...

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