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Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

bloomberg.com

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Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#231

Post by throw_this_one »

bgorman wrote: post #174
mikechen233 wrote: post #134

Just today telsa sold 10000 cars in the Shanghai factory in March and Tesla stock jumped as result. I have a feeling that with Europe and US in continue lock down, China is going to support a huge number businesses. Looking at a number of Western business, all cite china has a very important market. Everyone of them earned a ton of money from that market. Some manufacturing will leave china, but if business want to a…

There is no vilification about China. China is by far the biggest non-existential threat to individual liberty in the world today. Great firewall of China. No Freedom of Speech or Religion. Ethnic Cleansing Camps. Militarizing the South China Sea. Massive corporate espionage operations. Claiming Taiwan is a breakaway island. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength

Yeah their strategy is to grow so large that they can just call the shots. I would be a ton of "western" politicians and business leaders are in their pockets too. Instead of a head on conflict they are going to slowly absorb the enemy. This is one area that I think Trump was right in, and the Dems (and neo-cons) seemed to be mostly in their pockets. I don't fully understand what Obama's China plan was.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#232

Post by viklove »

henearkr wrote: post #206
surge wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, the WHO does, they even said this thing wasn't transmitted person to person. And they're supposed to be the authority everyone was saying to listen to.

I think that the WHO communication was proportionate to the current knowledge at the time of each of their interventions. First of all they said, when it was clear there was a problem "We have a simple message for all countries: test, test, test." (and then Trump and almost everybody else did not want to hear that) And moreover they said more exactly, some time before the previous item, that "Preliminary investigatio…

The WHO is obviously in China's pocket. I mean they can't even bring themselves to use the word Taiwan in public communications.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#233

Post by viklove »

pinkfoot wrote: post #202
str33t_punk wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason people don’t trust China’s aid is that the shortage is caused by China. They bought up the worlds supply of PPE (over 2 billion masks) and nationalized factories owned by foreign companies (such as 3m) so their masks produced stay internal. It’s almost as if I cornered the food market and then when people were starving I start selling them food but disguising it as a loving donation. People can see through…

Nonsense. Here [1] is a fine article of an all-American company in Texas that is too nervous to get back into the business of making masks since they lost a ton of money and had to lay off over 100 staff when demand vanished after the last SARS panic. They still have the equipment and know-how. They just don't trust the market. Not a single Chinese government official involved in this sad saga. [1] https://www.washin…

Just like with oil, any industry can be gamed if a single player accumulates a massive stockpile of a commodity, then floods the market to drive prices down and make production unprofitable for competitors.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#234

Post by ftvy »

Medicalidiot wrote: post #93
philliphaydon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During Swine Flu outbreak in 2009 china closed it's borders to Mexico, but turns around and says it's unfair when people close their borders to china. Then proceeded to close their borders AGAIN. facepalm

SARS happened in 2002-2004, no?

SARS was closer to 1999-2000.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#235

Post by [deleted] »

ubermon wrote: post #46
systemvoltage wrote: post #9

Actually this pandemic has shown some true colors of many nations. 1) US trying to unsuccessfully hoard supplies, issues with the German testing company 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. 3) European countries are in-fighting for supplies. Switzer…

2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. I am curious what will be considered not fake and genuine support? Damned if they and damned if they don’t. AFAIK Dutch issued a article clarify the mistake they made which nobody seems to care. I don’t think any…

[deleted]

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#236

Post by friedman23 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #170
friedman23 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except in this case the only countries that got out unscathed took unilateral action rather than listening to the recommendations of the corrupt multi national organizations that are supposedly trying to protect global public health.

In a way. WHO was way too cautious and severely underplayed the issue in January and February, but even then, the small recommendations they did make were completely ignored by the entire Western world.

> In a way

In a way? Taiwan has less than 350 cases. They didn't wait for the WHO recommendation. Hundreds of thousands of people are going to die because of greed and bureaucratic incompetence.

Giant centralized institutions are not the solution to humanities' ills and dealing and cooperating with corrupt foreign powers isn't either.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#237

Post by castratikron »

tanilama wrote: post #18
tren-hard wrote: post #5

So Japanese companies move operations to China because it's cheaper, leaving Japanese jobs behinds. Those businesses profit from cheap labor, emissions, and materials. Now Japan is subsidizing their return to Japan with $2.2 billion. I really hope the US doesn't adopt this (narrator: they will). It's a slap in the face to tax payers.

Moving back to Japan is particularly not appealing anyway, Japan is having a severe labor shortage due to rabidly aging population. And 2.2B is surely not enough to persuade firms anyway on national scale, might work on targeted industry however.

Maybe an attempt to get some of the 500k+ hikikomori back into the workforce could be made. A majority are working age men.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#238

Post by jbay »

chosenbreed37 wrote: post #63
tomp wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, I don't understand what efficiency gains this kind of globalization was supposed to bring anyways... A factory in China is just as efficient as a factory in Spain or USA. Obviously, cheaper workers work for less, but that's not exactly efficiency , (1) more a question of fairness, (2) can be done domestically (low-cost immigrant workers) and (3) there's plenty of cheap workers worldwide, not just in Chi…

> The only real advantage I can see is concentration of skill - e.g. people say that you basically have to develop electronics in Shenzhen, there's simply not enough talent in the US and EU - but I wonder if the efficiency gains are offset by innovation losses. Again, IMO it would be better to have a local high-skilled population of engineers & entrepreneurs. There are probably advantages for many large corporations.…

Why do the design in the US? Chinese engineers are doing great designs themselves, and for less than American salaries... And they can visit right there on the factory floor, talking to the manufacturers directly about how to make their designs, in the same time zone and the same language...

Are US engineers imagining the same ideas about being irreplaceable that an earlier generation of American machinists, tool-and-die experts, and manufacturing workers also did?

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#239

Post by TeMPOraL »

theptip wrote: post #199
TeMPOraL wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't WWI the usual counterargument to globalization reducing the risk of war? Or were the countries back then not interconnected enough ?

I wasn't familiar with this counterargument, and did a quick dig and found this primer: https://www.economist.com/buttonwoods-notebook/2017/06/14/th... Do you have any particular recommendations/sources for further discussion around this argument?

Not really, it's just something I've seen used as the most common counterargument to "tighter economic connections decreases risk of war", given that apparently in 1914 people thought international war was nearly impossible due to all the trade interdependencies. I honestly never dug deeper into the similarities and differences between then and now.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#240

Post by FooBarWidget »

adventured wrote: post #165
FooBarWidget wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this has got anything to do with China's soft power. The Dutch generally look at things in a calm and less emotionally-loaded manner, at least compared to the Americans. There is still a slight slant towards mistrust but it's nowhere near how it is in America. I see the US social media villanizing China for the most insane things that can be easily disproven. The Dutch at least make an attempt at being…

It's a matter of stakes. The Netherlands has no power and very few responsibilities globally. It's often easy to be objective about topics when your stakes are low and distant. How's that supposed Dutch calm looking when it comes to Italy and fiscal matters these days? I've been following that closely, they've been anything but calm, rational, objective. They're being emotional and subjective, making poor decisions,…

What you say may have some truth in it. However, does having a stake mean that it is okay to act overly emotional and occasionally throwing out rational analysis?

I also disagree on one thing here: the claim that China is projecting power to the rest of the world, that is trying to conquer the world or becoming an American style militaristic empire. In my opinion this is pure projection (in the psychological sense). China wants to defend themselves from a US invasion or blockade. They are not interested in controlling or occupying other countries, they just want to be able to do business.

What about South China Sea you may ask? They do it in order to deny the US from using that area to blockade them, not to conquer other countries or deny other countries from normal usage. See https://www.quora.com/Why-does-China-want-to-control-almost-...

Note, I am not saying whether this is a good or a just thing. But it certainly is different from how most westerners understand it.

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