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“I, along with almost all of Disney Imagineering, am furloughed without pay”

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Re: “I, along with almost all of Disney Imagineering, am furloughed without pay”

#81

Post by dang »

malux85 wrote: post #39
hkai wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it mean you have to distribute it to employees? It seems to me that even if Disney earns 100 times that, their employees should not get more than the market rate.

Ethically it means you should take care of your employees during a pandemic or any other exceptional circumstance. You know - the staff that were there for you, building your empire when times were good. Now they are suffering and Disney is posting record income numbers. You sound like one of the asshole, cut-throat managers who makes decisions like this. I hope people like you die in a fire.

Whoa. You can't do this here, regardless of how wrong other commenters are or you feel they are. Ditto for https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22820276.

Of course strong feelings arise with this subject matter, and doubly so during a crisis. But if you're commenting here, you need not to let that propel you into personal attack or verbal violence. Maybe you don't owe corporate apologists or Disney executives better, but you owe this community better if you're posting here (much better).

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

It's also not in your interest to post like this. It will appeal only to a subset of the readers who already agree with you, but alienate everyone else. In other words, the price you pay for the momentary relief of venting is that your comment discredits your own position, making the truth in it harder for others to perceive and actually driving them further away from you. That harms your cause.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: “I, along with almost all of Disney Imagineering, am furloughed without pay”

#82

Post by dang »

malux85 wrote: post #55
nodesocket wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are extensive government programs to help that were recently passed. Obviously the programs probably won't pay the full salary of an engineer or tech employee, but there is help. > Any full-time or part-time worker who is furloughed, laid off or had their hours reduced due to the coronavirus is eligible for expanded unemployment benefits.

Thanks Justin. Do you manage your company like this too? When times are good, you take all the profit and when times are bad it's "fuck you" to the employee and go stand in government handout lines?

Personal attacks are not allowed here, no matter how wrong someone is or you feel they are. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22825240.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: “I, along with almost all of Disney Imagineering, am furloughed without pay”

#84

Post by floor2 »

malux85 wrote: post #55
nodesocket wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are extensive government programs to help that were recently passed. Obviously the programs probably won't pay the full salary of an engineer or tech employee, but there is help. > Any full-time or part-time worker who is furloughed, laid off or had their hours reduced due to the coronavirus is eligible for expanded unemployment benefits.

Thanks Justin. Do you manage your company like this too? When times are good, you take all the profit and when times are bad it's "fuck you" to the employee and go stand in government handout lines?

Even at most cynical, it would be "When times are good, you take profit while also paying payroll tax, income tax, property tax, unemployment taxes, social security taxes, medicare taxes and when times are bad, some of your employees use those government programs you've been funding during the good times"

Re: “I, along with almost all of Disney Imagineering, am furloughed without pay”

#85

Post by angry-sw-dev »

code_biologist wrote: post #20
downerending wrote: post #11

From a pure cut-throat capitalist perspective, this seems like a stupid move. Teams like this are not easy to replace, and Disney has plenty of money.

They're furloughed, not laid off. I doubt they'll lose anyone who wasn't intending to leave. I get that John is down, and I definitely don't have whatever insight led him to say "even if I'm lucky enough to return someday, other people won't be". From my understanding though, a huge portion of corporate around the stores and parks was furloughed because there's not much for them to do at home. Their healthcare is cov…

Unemployment is probably a fraction of their salaries.

It's a shame

Re: “I, along with almost all of Disney Imagineering, am furloughed without pay”

#86

Post by dang »

mcphage wrote: post #71
dang wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please stop posting in the flamewar style to HN? You've been doing it repeatedly, and we ban accounts that do that because it kills the spirit of curious conversation, which this site exists for. If you wouldn't mind taking a look at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and using HN in the intended spirit, we'd appreciate it. It's understandable that temperatures rise and pots boil over, but we…

> we all need to control ourselves in those areas, or else we end up ruining this place. So you don’t think attitudes like what trophycase was responding to, ruins this site? I’ve known more programmers leave this site because of ugly attitudes worded civilly and so left unchecked, than because of responses like the one you’re complaining about. I think you’re threatening to ban the wrong people.

> So you don’t think attitudes like what trophycase was responding to, ruins this site?

That doesn't follow, and I'd be careful about drawing such conclusions. It's difficult to reply meaningfully to general statements like those in your comment here, because they can actually be referring to a wide range of different things. I'd really need to see specific links.

In the case of the comment trophycase was responding to (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22820206), the fact that it was heavily downvoted already indicates a kind of community moderation, signalling that there's something objectionable about the post. The fact that I didn't reply with additional censure doesn't mean I somehow like the post or agree with it. It was a low-information comment with an ideological slant. But HN gets a huge number of those, from all ideological sides. If we were going to try to moderate all of them, first of all we couldn't because we'd be spending all our time doing nothing else, and second it would generate a massive backlash from users who don't agree that such comments clear the threshold for public scolding.

(The difference between that and "Ah yes. Hard decisions about whether the new CEO will wipe his ass with that 11 billion, or use it as fuel for his fireplace. Decisions, decisions." is pretty stark. Note also that I was responding to a repeated pattern.)

I'm by no means happy about such comments on HN, but there are limits, much harder limits than people assume, to what moderation power can achieve. Usually when people demand more from moderation, what they seem to want is for us to ban anyone who supports an ideology they disagree with. That's not an option for HN (even though we get accused of doing it all the time). It would kill the community, and I don't see what good that would do anyone.

Re: “I, along with almost all of Disney Imagineering, am furloughed without pay”

#87

Post by samspenc »

cinbun8 wrote: post #74
MrGilbert wrote: post #31

Looks like the original tweet got deleted, but archive.org got us covered: https://web.archive.org/web/20200409030935/https://twitter.c...

That link is dead too. Does archive.org update its archive based on deleted content?

It seems back up now -- the archive.org backup that is, not the original tweet.

Re: “I, along with almost all of Disney Imagineering, am furloughed without pay”

#88

Post by itsdrewmiller »

alkonaut wrote: post #69
blast wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would depend on the contract would it not?

Absolutely. But even if such contracts were possible, wouldn’t people avoid signing contracts that allow the employer to simply stop paying? My contract has a 3 month notice so unless I agree to anything else, I’d be paid 3 months regardless of whether the business is able to operate at all. But I suppose that if my contract didn’t have that and I instead had a signing bonus or some other comp that gave me a few mont…

It's uncommon in the US to have a set duration employment contract - almost every state allows either side to terminate employment for almost any reason. Those represented by unions usually do have a collective bargaining agreement that puts more restrictions around when and how employers can terminate employees, but union membership in the US is low.
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