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Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

bloomberg.com

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Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#141

Post by billfruit »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #22
systemvoltage wrote: post #9

Actually this pandemic has shown some true colors of many nations. 1) US trying to unsuccessfully hoard supplies, issues with the German testing company 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. 3) European countries are in-fighting for supplies. Switzer…

> 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. Allow me to disagree with this one. I see people questioning China's motives on helping other countries, but in my opinion this is a baseless and overly cynical view of things, not truth. People want to buy int…

The amount of anti China sentiment in the US media is hyperbolic, that it is not possible to trust most US based media houses reports in this topic.

This topic has become too politicised by people and organisations with hawkish motives that sane discussion on this has become impossible.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#142

Post by lotsofpulp »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #130
lotsofpulp wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coordination (or cooperation) only works up to a point. If resources are truly scarce, then being selfish may be the only way to survive no matter what century you’re in.

If resources are truly scarce, then competition means most players won't survive - whatever resources they manage to hoard for themselves won't be enough for their needs. Cooperation means more will be saved. (A simple thought experiment: imagine there are 10 equally capable competitors, each needing 2 units of resources to survive, and there are only 10 available globally. Under cooperation, 5 competitors will need…

If you can figure out how to turn off the part of people’s brains that wants to avoid them being part of the 5 to be sacrificed, you will have created world peace.

Otherwise, this is what peaceful cooperation looks like (I’ll give you this in exchange for that, where obviously the one with more desireable goods or services to trade will survive).

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#143

Post by twomoretime »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #71
twomoretime wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>US trying to unsuccessfully hoard supplies, issues with the German testing company This is bullshit. At least three of those stories have been quietly retracted. Also you're damn right US should be putting itselt first when in crisis. This has also confirmed the true colors of the media - hypocrites who spent months comparing COVID to the flu and yelling "sinophobia!" For closing the border, before turning on a dime…

Yeah being President sucks. Supposed to be well-informed and make correct decisions, not rely on journalist's whining to create policy and take action. But so much easier to just issue sound-bytes and respond to whatever is the issue of the day.

Everybody screwed up. But journalists have a serious problem with exaggerating and outright falsifying controversies when their party is out of office.

That doesn't excuse the actions of Republican party members but it does destroy the credibility of the journalistic establishment. Which has devolved into a total cash grabbing, activist joke. And this happened before Trump.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#144

Post by wendyshu »

zepto wrote: post #103
wendyshu wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have morals that aren't a function of geographic location, presumably.

Isn’t it clearly immoral to sacrifice the interests of the people who elected you to support another nation?

Maybe, in the sense that it could be politically destabilizing or something like that.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#145

Post by throw_m239339 »

jorblumesea wrote: post #127

Easier said than done, given that the Chinese government is pretty much writing blank checks to attract, retain and gather just about every form of IP and manufacturing processes known. You see the same thing with 5G, where the goals of the Chinese government isn't so much to produce a price competitive product but crush global competition in the marketplace by whatever means possible. How can you compete with subsid…

> How can you compete with subsidies so heavy it's basically free?

Well we need to acknowledge the treat that is China first and foremost, which is hard for a entire generation of people who grew up addicted to China cheap goods.

China is a (bloody) dictatorship, they can plan a global strategy 50 years in advance. Our western countries are weak because of political whims and are unable to trace a clear strategy because we have been all about short term profit for 40 years now.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#146

Post by tomrod »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #67
stronglikedan wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that, in XXI century, we're realizing that the human race is not yet ready for globalization. Heck, we still can't even assimilate into respective cultures properly. People emigrate from places with problems, then insist the place they immigrated to should be like the place they emigrated from.

As much as it pains me, I think you might be right. Perhaps we're not ready yet. Then again, who's ready the first time they do something? This pandemic has made obvious a lot of places where our attempt at globalization doesn't work. I hope our societies will learn from it and do better next time.

Nah. Europe, most of the liberal world, are ready and recognize people add value.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#147

Post by FooBarWidget »

antigirl wrote: post #95
FooBarWidget wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will also have to disagree on that one. I was born in China, I now live in Europe, and "CCP doesn't give a shit about people" is a bad western stereotype. Of course, define "caring". Does any other government, including democratic ones, truly care about people? Debatable. But what I'm saying is that CCP is not the mass-murdering villain that Hacker News makes it out to be. What about censorship, etc? Yes bad things…

Agree but not the good hero you make them out to be either. Does any other nation have Muslim concentration camps. Invasive tracking? And extreme sensorships measures?

I didn't claim they are heroes. I explicitly said that bad things do happen. I just want to stress that that doesn't negate the fact that good things also happen, and that all countries have good and bad things. Pointing out bad things is one thing; stereotyping and overly focusing only on the bad things is another.

As for Muslim camps: forced reeducation and deradicalization, yes; concentration/killing/genocide: no. Try these:

Daniel Dumbrill (Canadian living in China) on Uygurs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6grvHceQsQ

Kim Iversen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff4YZBi4UTc

CGTN discussion on Xinjiang situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2yMjbB1q24 (disclaimer: yes this is Chinese state media, believe whatever you want, but I think it's still worth it to have heard this viewpoint)

And then there is also the fact that tens of Muslim countries officially approved of the Xinjiang situation. That's a bit odd, isn't it?

Now let me be clear: I am not claiming it's all roses and sunshine over there. It isn't, there are real problems, and people are indeed forced into things (though not killed), which is not good. But this is a more complex, nuanced situation than "China doesn't like Muslims so they kill them all".

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#148

Post by systemvoltage »

hkmurakami wrote: post #12
systemvoltage wrote: post #9

Actually this pandemic has shown some true colors of many nations. 1) US trying to unsuccessfully hoard supplies, issues with the German testing company 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. 3) European countries are in-fighting for supplies. Switzer…

I personally enjoyed the hypocrisy of China initially requesting Nations to not "overreact" and close borders to its travelers (mid February), then proceeding to do exactly this towards these same nations (mid March) when things became worse overseas.

CCP does not understand that playing asymmetric games from business laws (booting Uber off of China for example), diplomacy and global influence, etc is damaging long term brand and goodwill.

In this pandemic, democratic nations are suffering more than authoritarian regimes purely by choice - complete Wuhan style measures are unacceptable say in Sweden. This asymmetry is going to give a short term boost to China. Long term, my opinion is that western democracies will realize what they’re against - all eggs in a single totalitarian basket - is a bad idea. Manufacturing and reliance on China will change.

It is already changing: https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-04-08/japan...

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#149

Post by billfruit »

antigirl wrote: post #95
FooBarWidget wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will also have to disagree on that one. I was born in China, I now live in Europe, and "CCP doesn't give a shit about people" is a bad western stereotype. Of course, define "caring". Does any other government, including democratic ones, truly care about people? Debatable. But what I'm saying is that CCP is not the mass-murdering villain that Hacker News makes it out to be. What about censorship, etc? Yes bad things…

Agree but not the good hero you make them out to be either. Does any other nation have Muslim concentration camps. Invasive tracking? And extreme sensorships measures?

It is not that they are a good hero. It is that they are a system, not an evil cartoonish villain as a few in the west seems to think.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#150

Post by chvid »

henearkr wrote: post #10

I'm surprised that Japan's government is feeling this as a priority right now... There are no problems for goods importation between Japan and China now, and as in China the pandemics has been largely reduced, there should not be in the near future neither. PS: Japan and more precisely Tokyo is on the brink to imitate the human tragedy of Italy and US, so maybe they could vote some different budgets for now... (like,…

You are correct but in this situation there is fear and anger which leads to isolationist policies.

The path out of this, both the handling of the virus and the economic fallout, is more corporation and trade. For Japan it means more trade with China as it is dependent both on Chinese supply and Chinese demand.

I think the policies will be walked back or just become overshadowed and insignificant.

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