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Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

bloomberg.com

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Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#51

Post by FooBarWidget »

philliphaydon wrote: post #47
FooBarWidget wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will also have to disagree on that one. I was born in China, I now live in Europe, and "CCP doesn't give a shit about people" is a bad western stereotype. Of course, define "caring". Does any other government, including democratic ones, truly care about people? Debatable. But what I'm saying is that CCP is not the mass-murdering villain that Hacker News makes it out to be. What about censorship, etc? Yes bad things…

> I was born in China Did you earn your red scarf?

Yes I did. Not even kidding. You get it when you generally behave like a good student at school. Maybe you associate it with something else (probably Mao mass murdering or w/e) but most Chinese see it as a pretty normal school thing.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#52

Post by philliphaydon »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #42
rorykoehler wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CCP don't have a great track record of giving a shit about people at home. What makes you think they care for anything but the opportunity/ability to project more power abroad?

I will also have to disagree on that one. I was born in China, I now live in Europe, and "CCP doesn't give a shit about people" is a bad western stereotype. Of course, define "caring". Does any other government, including democratic ones, truly care about people? Debatable. But what I'm saying is that CCP is not the mass-murdering villain that Hacker News makes it out to be. What about censorship, etc? Yes bad things…

> "I'm sitting home in Wuhan and eating free vegetables and fish govt sent me and you tell me it hurts my human rights???"

Delivered via rubbish trucks.

https://mothership.sg/2020/03/garbage-trucks-wuhan/

> American and Canadian, living & studying in china, talk about how it is actually like there

Actual videos from china

https://archive.nothingburger.today/Videos/

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#53

Post by cmrdporcupine »

remarkEon wrote: post #8
jennyyang wrote: post #4

At the very least, medical supplies and drugs manufacturing will get pulled back into each country. The 3M spat between Canada and the US makes it abundantly clear that in a time of true crisis, you can't even trust your closest friends when something terrifying happens to the world like this pandemic. Whether it means all manufacturing will move away from China or if it means that they will spread it globally, is an…

Got a link detailing what happened between Canada and the US? My understanding of the 3M debacle is that they use a distributor model for their consumables, and essentially "wash their hands" of what their distributors do once they have product in hand - and in the 3M case, the PPE was just going to the highest bidder, regardless of national origin.

Not at all applicable in this case. Some federal authorities in the US attempted to halt some 3 million (or 500,000 depending on reports, it seems) purchased shipments destined for Canada from 3M.

It was only the intervention at the highest level of the Canadian government that stopped this.

It's worth pointing out that without Canadian nurses from Windsor who cross the border every day to work in Detroit hospitals, the healthcare system in Detroit wouldn't function.

Or that apparently the pulp used to make the 3M masks comes from softwood from British Columbia.

I'm sure Chrystia Freeland made these points and many others abundantly clear when she got on the phone with the Trump administration.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#54

Post by Zenst »

magicsmoke wrote: post #33
FooBarWidget wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. Allow me to disagree with this one. I see people questioning China's motives on helping other countries, but in my opinion this is a baseless and overly cynical view of things, not truth. People want to buy int…

Considering this is an English site, most of the participants here are probably from the Anglosphere which, being led by the US, would tend to mistrust China. It's interesting how you mention that as Dutch and European, you don't have the same level of mistrust. Without a measure of how China is viewed, not just in the Anglosphere, but in Africa, Latin America, Southeast Asia, South Asia, the Islamic world, Central A…

Sorry posted in response to wrong comment and so not direct response to the comment replied to, more the thread above and editing this in as unable to delete and redo, sorry my bad.

When outsourcing of production and labour suits, it's ignored for the underlying issues, when those underlying issue come to the surface, the same people who shifted for a shareholder appeasement dividend are just as quick to point the finger in every direction apart form themselves.

That in many forms is how things have played out in resource supply chains, this with margin nibbling away and with that a shift from local sourcing todwards, saving some money short-term are only a disaster away from being seen. Alas even those disasters need to be blatant enough to get noticed and the response and excess transportation of products and true impact/cost upon the environment as bit by bit, gets slower in acknowledgement.

But easy to reduce everything as tribal politics when convenient and carry on paying lip service and then wonder why we are in the state we are in. Of course it is akin to claiming everything is down to aliens and when you look at it like that, it's crazy and ignores the real issue of accountable and responsible buying and selling, something that is hard to account and balance upon the company books and with that, the drive for profit being the goal, bad things happen and until the system truly accounts for such things and the impact - the same mistakes will carry on transpiring and the people blamed for crimes they did not commit and those that commit true crimes are allowed to carry on as the law and rules are so slow in catching up that by the time they do, the problems have shifted.

Maybe why tax havens and the like are still a thing as are many other forms of unfairness that play out in the world today.

But we do live in a society that is more geared towards reactive handling of issues over proactive handling.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#55

Post by FooBarWidget »

magicsmoke wrote: post #33
FooBarWidget wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. Allow me to disagree with this one. I see people questioning China's motives on helping other countries, but in my opinion this is a baseless and overly cynical view of things, not truth. People want to buy int…

Considering this is an English site, most of the participants here are probably from the Anglosphere which, being led by the US, would tend to mistrust China. It's interesting how you mention that as Dutch and European, you don't have the same level of mistrust. Without a measure of how China is viewed, not just in the Anglosphere, but in Africa, Latin America, Southeast Asia, South Asia, the Islamic world, Central A…

I don't think this has got anything to do with China's soft power. The Dutch generally look at things in a calm and less emotionally-loaded manner, at least compared to the Americans. There is still a slight slant towards mistrust but it's nowhere near how it is in America.

I see the US social media villanizing China for the most insane things that can be easily disproven. The Dutch at least make an attempt at being objective.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#56

Post by stronglikedan »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #34
rsweeney21 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nations exist to protect it's citizens. So yeah, as they should, each country is prioritizing their own needs before exporting any surplus to other countries. The challenge is no one really has any idea how much of the supplies they actually need. It's interesting to me that you find this surprising or view it as bad behavior.

> It's interesting to me that you find this surprising or view it as bad behavior. It's not surprising in the sense that it fits the definition of a "nation state". It's surprising because one would think that in XXI century, people understood that global problems require global coordination; competition of selfish actors fails spectacularly in such cases.

I think that, in XXI century, we're realizing that the human race is not yet ready for globalization. Heck, we still can't even assimilate into respective cultures properly. People emigrate from places with problems, then insist the place they immigrated to should be like the place they emigrated from.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#57

Post by philliphaydon »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #51
philliphaydon wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was born in China Did you earn your red scarf?

Yes I did. Not even kidding. You get it when you generally behave like a good student at school. Maybe you associate it with something else (probably Mao mass murdering or w/e) but most Chinese see it as a pretty normal school thing.

Correct, you get it when you show loyalty to ccp.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#58

Post by magicsmoke »

Zenst wrote: post #54
magicsmoke wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering this is an English site, most of the participants here are probably from the Anglosphere which, being led by the US, would tend to mistrust China. It's interesting how you mention that as Dutch and European, you don't have the same level of mistrust. Without a measure of how China is viewed, not just in the Anglosphere, but in Africa, Latin America, Southeast Asia, South Asia, the Islamic world, Central A…

Sorry posted in response to wrong comment and so not direct response to the comment replied to, more the thread above and editing this in as unable to delete and redo, sorry my bad. When outsourcing of production and labour suits, it's ignored for the underlying issues, when those underlying issue come to the surface, the same people who shifted for a shareholder appeasement dividend are just as quick to point the fi…

You posted on the wrong comment mate

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#59

Post by camhenlin »

This is a really smart move on Japan's part and hopefully other countries quickly follow suit with more substantial sums of money. $2.2B isn't going to go very far, but pumping trillions in to local manufacturing might, and would also act as a decent stimulus for local economies. Any products that can be manufactured domestically, or might suffer from shortages during global pandemics or other worldwide issues, need to be manufactured domestically. This ought to be pretty obvious at this point.

We should be using this opportunity to determine which must have manufacturing capabilities locally, making that happen, then sticking to it long term for national defense. This doesn't just apply to Japan, or the US, but every country on the globe. Global supply chains are really showing their weaknesses over the last couple months.

Additionally, anything that countries can do to pry away CCP control of global supply chains should be done, with a long term goal of weakening the CCP as they have certainly shown they can't be trusted. They can't be trusted by their people, they can't be trusted by other nations. They've shown now multiple times they will do everything that they can to cover up growing pandemics within their boarders, hide actual infection and death numbers, downplay problems, silence whistleblowers, and lie. Beyond that, they continue to support genocide inside their own boarders, and they continue their aggressive expansion in the South China Sea. They are a bad actor.

Re: Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China

#60

Post by AtomicOrbital »

hkmurakami wrote: post #12
systemvoltage wrote: post #9

Actually this pandemic has shown some true colors of many nations. 1) US trying to unsuccessfully hoard supplies, issues with the German testing company 2) China trying to use soft power, but the whole drama feels fake. It is good that they are sending supplies (often faulty and not up to the quality, see dutch story around this) but it doesn't feel genuine. 3) European countries are in-fighting for supplies. Switzer…

I personally enjoyed the hypocrisy of China initially requesting Nations to not "overreact" and close borders to its travelers (mid February), then proceeding to do exactly this towards these same nations (mid March) when things became worse overseas.

when china shutdown domestic movement into/out of Wuhan they kept open international movement into/out of Wuhan ... at the same time neighbor countries with china tried to block cross boarder movement yet china forced those trade routes to stay open well after Wuhan had entered lockdown - pure evil
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