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Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

latimes.com

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Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#91

Post by ogre_codes »

chrisseaton wrote: post #43
ogre_codes wrote: post #38

There are 2 big problems with on-demand/ gig employment. #1 Our current system of coupling healthcare and other life essential benefits with employment is broken. It makes it difficult for people to work small jobs or switch jobs. In order for gig jobs to be viable, people need to be able to get survive a broken foot without going bankrupt. #2 Gig-style businesses tend to vastly underpay employees. The early claims t…

> Our current system of coupling healthcare and other life essential benefits with employment is broken. Is it not possible to purchase your own healthcare independently of an employer? And opt-out of employer healthcare? Or are only employers allowed to insure you? If it's a matter of scale could a buyer's union buy it bulk like an employer but not linked to your employment?

> Is it not possible to purchase your own healthcare independently of an employer?

Have you priced outside insurance?

If you are making the wages Uber is paying drivers, it is not possible to purchase healthcare independent of your employer and pay rent.

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#92

Post by bhupy »

reaperducer wrote: post #85
bhupy wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The national agreed minimum wage is $7.25/hour. Every Uber/Lyft driver earns well in excess of that.

Every Uber/Lyft driver earns well in excess of that. No. For most, it's not even close. The only way to make that kind of money was to collect kickbacks from bringing tourists to strip clubs. Plus, many states have a minimum wage much higher than $7.25/hour. Source: Drove for Uber for eight months.

Sure, in some states like CA and NY, Uber drivers earn closer to $15/hour.

Anecdotal Source: I've driven Uber too.

Actual Source: https://www.ridester.com/how-much-do-uber-drivers-make/

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#93

Post by ogre_codes »

grecy wrote: post #73
ogre_codes wrote: post #38

There are 2 big problems with on-demand/ gig employment. #1 Our current system of coupling healthcare and other life essential benefits with employment is broken. It makes it difficult for people to work small jobs or switch jobs. In order for gig jobs to be viable, people need to be able to get survive a broken foot without going bankrupt. #2 Gig-style businesses tend to vastly underpay employees. The early claims t…

> There are 2 big problems with on-demand/ gig employment The only developed country where they are a problem is the USA. Other countries have healthcare regardless of employment status, and minimum wages high enough to live a good life ($19.48 AUD/hr in Australia, for example). They can, and have been fixed elsewhere.

> They can, and have been fixed elsewhere.

Yep. And I should have mentioned that.

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#94

Post by toomuchtodo »

bhupy wrote: post #52
toomuchtodo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am entirely happy to revisit employment arrangements....once universal healthcare has been delivered, and not a moment sooner. It is an atomic commit.

And I am entirely happy to revisit universal healthcare once employment arrangements are fixed, and not a moment sooner. It is an atomic commit, after all. This line of uncompromising thinking is not really constructive.

You want to pull out one of the few safety nets left for American citizens (employment benefits) without providing for healthcare needs.

Sometimes compromise isn’t possible. Whomever comes with the most leverage wins. I acknowledge my side needs additional leverage. Maybe that’s COVID, maybe that’s the ensuing global recession.

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#95

Post by LatteLazy »

I think there are a lot of people who want to work for services like Uber. Defacto banning them like many seem to want to is counterproductive and somewhat luddite-esque. How to do it without hurting other employment is complex. But banning it isn't an answer, it's just ducking the question...

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#96

Post by KaoruAoiShiho »

tathougies wrote: post #22
KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too, but the answer is to give Uber drivers more independence not to get rid of their contractor status. If this results in gig workers being able to for example do multiple jobs at once, being able to choose their own clients, etc then it could be a win for society?

I thought uber drivers can drive for whomever they want? I often make deals with uber drivers to arrange for scheduled pickups (rather give them the full money than uber getting a cut), outside the app, and uber can't do anything to prevent this.

AFAIK you can't decline clients without getting punished by the company? Sure this ensures service and prevents discrimination but forced worked hurts driver independence.

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#97

Post by ogre_codes »

bhupy wrote: post #75
ogre_codes wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But for #2, you seem to be asserting that there is some method by which it is possible to determine that a particular salary/wage is "fair" and that "fair" wage must be mandated for all people. We have a nationally agreed minimum wage. Expecting that the average person doing a gig job would be able to earn that minimum wage plus expenses is not unreasonable. Since gig type employers, this base wage would need to be…

The national agreed minimum wage is $7.25/hour. Every Uber/Lyft driver earns well in excess of that.

> Every Uber/Lyft driver earns well in excess of that.

If you don't account for travel time between gigs, expenses, or additional taxes, they might, but you can't Uber if you don't fill up your gas tank and change the oil in your car.

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#98

Post by bhupy »

ogre_codes wrote: post #91
chrisseaton wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our current system of coupling healthcare and other life essential benefits with employment is broken. Is it not possible to purchase your own healthcare independently of an employer? And opt-out of employer healthcare? Or are only employers allowed to insure you? If it's a matter of scale could a buyer's union buy it bulk like an employer but not linked to your employment?

> Is it not possible to purchase your own healthcare independently of an employer? Have you priced outside insurance? If you are making the wages Uber is paying drivers, it is not possible to purchase healthcare independent of your employer and pay rent.

If you are making the wages Uber is paying drivers, you will likely be eligible for ACA subsidies that reduce the monthly premium. If your income is low enough, the full premium price is subsidized.

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#99

Post by gok »

grecy wrote: post #73
ogre_codes wrote: post #38

There are 2 big problems with on-demand/ gig employment. #1 Our current system of coupling healthcare and other life essential benefits with employment is broken. It makes it difficult for people to work small jobs or switch jobs. In order for gig jobs to be viable, people need to be able to get survive a broken foot without going bankrupt. #2 Gig-style businesses tend to vastly underpay employees. The early claims t…

> There are 2 big problems with on-demand/ gig employment The only developed country where they are a problem is the USA. Other countries have healthcare regardless of employment status, and minimum wages high enough to live a good life ($19.48 AUD/hr in Australia, for example). They can, and have been fixed elsewhere.

That's US$12.12/hr to save anyone interested the time looking it up

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#100

Post by bhupy »

ogre_codes wrote: post #97
bhupy wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The national agreed minimum wage is $7.25/hour. Every Uber/Lyft driver earns well in excess of that.

> Every Uber/Lyft driver earns well in excess of that. If you don't account for travel time between gigs, expenses, or additional taxes, they might, but you can't Uber if you don't fill up your gas tank and change the oil in your car.

> Travel time between gigs

No gig in the world covers that.

> Expenses

On average, after vehicle expenses, Uber drivers make as low as $15/hour[1], and as high as $20/hour. And this is also assuming that one concedes the argument that gigs ought to reimburse expenses, which isn't true for most contract work.

https://www.ridester.com/how-much-do-uber-drivers-make

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