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Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

latimes.com

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Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#21

Post by tathougies »

astrodust wrote: post #14
airstrike wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I like the freedom. You do you, but I just wanted to provide an alternative view: that freedom might be great when you're young and equally free, but IMHO it doesn't work as well when you're 40 years old trying to ensure stable income to support your family

22: "I like freedom! I can work whatever job I want, and so long as I'm living with my parents, most of my income is something I can spend!" 42: "My health insurance premiums are $2000 a month, my automotive insurance is another $500, rent is $1500, and I only make $3000 a month because I'm being out-bid by freeloading 22 year olds."

If the total number of 22 year olds is great enough that they collectively take all the jobs in an economy, then the issue is not enough jobs, not 22 year olds taking certain types of jobs. However, given the low unemployment before COVID, it's unlikely that we have too few jobs.

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#22

Post by tathougies »

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #5
xhkkffbf wrote: post #2

I like gig work. I like the freedom. We need fewer restrictions not more. Forcing businesses to hire only full-time workers reduces the number of jobs. They won't hire someone unless there's 2000 hours of work to fill up a year.

Me too, but the answer is to give Uber drivers more independence not to get rid of their contractor status. If this results in gig workers being able to for example do multiple jobs at once, being able to choose their own clients, etc then it could be a win for society?

I thought uber drivers can drive for whomever they want? I often make deals with uber drivers to arrange for scheduled pickups (rather give them the full money than uber getting a cut), outside the app, and uber can't do anything to prevent this.

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#23

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #3
xhkkffbf wrote: post #2

I like gig work. I like the freedom. We need fewer restrictions not more. Forcing businesses to hire only full-time workers reduces the number of jobs. They won't hire someone unless there's 2000 hours of work to fill up a year.

* Decouple healthcare from employment (Universal healthcare) * Enable robust safety nets so lack of enough gig work doesn’t mean someone is homeless or goes hungry. Can we find middle ground? People can’t live good lives with excessive uncertainty and stress, and quality of life is what we should optimize for (like New Zealand is attempting), versus GDP. I concede gig work type employment has a place in our modern ec…

I’d like a trip to the Greek Isles. Why won’t your taxes pay for that?

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#24

Post by toomuchtodo »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #23
toomuchtodo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Decouple healthcare from employment (Universal healthcare) * Enable robust safety nets so lack of enough gig work doesn’t mean someone is homeless or goes hungry. Can we find middle ground? People can’t live good lives with excessive uncertainty and stress, and quality of life is what we should optimize for (like New Zealand is attempting), versus GDP. I concede gig work type employment has a place in our modern ec…

I’d like a trip to the Greek Isles. Why won’t your taxes pay for that?

Are you comparing luxury travel to basic human rights?

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#25

Post by tathougies »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #20
tathougies wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downvoted because this is true of any job. You cannot have a five day 9-5 work week if your salary income doesn't cover your rent, food, and healthcare and you have no other income. Gig work is no more or less special than that.

Full time employment comes with benefits and protections gig work does not ( the entire point of this article ).

If healthcare is decoupled from employment, as the comment chain suggests, what benefit is tied in with full-time employment. We should be seeking to decouple benefits from employment not solidifying the arrangement.

What protections does employment have? Hopefully very little.

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#26

Post by toomuchtodo »

tathougies wrote: post #25
toomuchtodo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full time employment comes with benefits and protections gig work does not ( the entire point of this article ).

If healthcare is decoupled from employment, as the comment chain suggests, what benefit is tied in with full-time employment. We should be seeking to decouple benefits from employment not solidifying the arrangement. What protections does employment have? Hopefully very little.

I am entirely happy to revisit employment arrangements....once universal healthcare has been delivered, and not a moment sooner. It is an atomic commit.

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#27

Post by Der_Einzige »

xhkkffbf wrote: post #7
toomuchtodo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Decouple healthcare from employment (Universal healthcare) * Enable robust safety nets so lack of enough gig work doesn’t mean someone is homeless or goes hungry. Can we find middle ground? People can’t live good lives with excessive uncertainty and stress, and quality of life is what we should optimize for (like New Zealand is attempting), versus GDP. I concede gig work type employment has a place in our modern ec…

The safety nets in the US are independent of the businesses. It's not like having a "full-time job" is a safety net. Ask all of the "full-time" employees at airlines, restaurants, hotels and other places discovered after COVID-19 hit. I'm totally cool with decoupling health insurance. I think Uber would love that. The great thing about the independent contractor life that Uber is expousing is that you can have your f…

Uber won't like that one bit because it's going to be tax increases on either wealthy people or corporations (or both) to pay for universal health care.

Don't pretend that the rich want universal health care. they don't.

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#28

Post by CJefferson »

xhkkffbf wrote: post #2

I like gig work. I like the freedom. We need fewer restrictions not more. Forcing businesses to hire only full-time workers reduces the number of jobs. They won't hire someone unless there's 2000 hours of work to fill up a year.

Uber isnt freedom. If they let you set your price, and let customers easily rebook with you, then you would have freedom. Uber want perfectly controlled interchangable cogs.

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#29

Post by astrodust »

tathougies wrote: post #21
astrodust wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

22: "I like freedom! I can work whatever job I want, and so long as I'm living with my parents, most of my income is something I can spend!" 42: "My health insurance premiums are $2000 a month, my automotive insurance is another $500, rent is $1500, and I only make $3000 a month because I'm being out-bid by freeloading 22 year olds."

If the total number of 22 year olds is great enough that they collectively take all the jobs in an economy, then the issue is not enough jobs, not 22 year olds taking certain types of jobs. However, given the low unemployment before COVID, it's unlikely that we have too few jobs.

It depends on defining "employed". Is living at home with your parents and barely getting by employed? Technically, yes. Reasonably, no.

Re: Uber wants to redefine employment, labor groups are fighting back

#30

Post by rch »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #23
toomuchtodo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Decouple healthcare from employment (Universal healthcare) * Enable robust safety nets so lack of enough gig work doesn’t mean someone is homeless or goes hungry. Can we find middle ground? People can’t live good lives with excessive uncertainty and stress, and quality of life is what we should optimize for (like New Zealand is attempting), versus GDP. I concede gig work type employment has a place in our modern ec…

I’d like a trip to the Greek Isles. Why won’t your taxes pay for that?

They do. My bartender friends travel all the time but since most of their income is in tips, they have subsidized healthcare (thankfully).
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