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Apple Faceshield

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Re: Apple Faceshield

#531

Post by zo1 »

ksk wrote: post #505
dlubarov wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If those projectiles are aerosolized and are in the air that you breathe It seems like you're imagining that the mucus and saliva particles would behave like a gas, but it's a suspension of liquid particles in the air, which behaves slightly differently. Think of breathing onto glass -- a lot of the aerosol I expel adheres to the glass. Some smaller droplets may move around it, but it's still preferable to receive…

>but it's still preferable to receive a smaller dose of the virus. Could you explain why you believe that? I haven't found anything definitive on this topic.

I'm really not a medical expert at all. But, just thinking about it one could at least speculate or argue: A smaller payload means the virus takes a longer time to "become very active" in the body and delaying this "ramp up" period may give your body's immune response a longer lead time from when it first "sees" the virus to when it becomes dangerous to you.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#532

Post by brodie »

Angostura wrote: post #417
GoodOldNe wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pedantic point: If you’re intubation the esophagus, you’re doing it wrong. :-)

Might this explain the poor survival rate?

I hope a doctor or nurse or respiratory therapist can correct me, but my layman’s impression is that intubation itself isn’t causing deaths as much as having to be intubated means you’re already in dire straits.

I was recently intubated 3 times in the last month and had no ill effects. I know that’s just an anecdote but no doctor ever told me it would be super risky. The alternative to not getting it however usually meant death.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#533

Post by brodie »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #483
uxp wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the money. PPE like face shields are specifically used during procedures that involve significant bodily fluid, like intubation, which is the process of pulling or pushing a tube down a patient's esophagus. Going to to the grocery store does not require a shield. Secondly disposable medical equipment, when used properly within a healthcare environment, is extremely wasteful. For most consumable items u…

> like intubation, which is the process of pulling or pushing a tube down a patient's esophagus. Hopefully you are intubating a patient’s trachea and not not the esophagus.

Does esophageal intubation happen much? I was intubated a month ago due to non-COVID respiratory failure. I also ended up getting pneumonia but no one knows when I got it. If that happened to me would my medical team have told me? Speaking generally obviously since you don’t know my case of course.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#534

Post by brodie »

gwright wrote: post #365
jonplackett wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It says that there's massive inequality?

I don't think it says that at all. You can't cherry pick two particular institutions and draw some sort of conclusion about "society". In this particular case it seems like the entire conclusion is based on nothing other than preconceived notions of what reactions "Stanford" and "Oakland" trigger in the reader. There doesn't seem to be any particular details about the actual situation at either location and how those…

If anything his comment reinforces negative stereotypes about the two regions. So many people in the Bay Area look down on Oakland like it’s a blighted disease-ridden wasteland and think the peninsula is some kind of haven for the rich and well off.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#535

Post by PinguTS »

dehrmann wrote: post #493
gowld wrote: post #6

Context: https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/5/21209270/apple-face-shield... “Our first shipment was delivered to Kaiser hospital facilities in the Santa Clara Valley this past week, and the feedback from doctors was very positive,” Cook says. “These pack flat, one hundred per box. Each shield is assembled in less than two minutes and is fully adjustable. We’re sourcing materials and manufacturing in the US and China.” A…

For people not aware (I doubt that it's many in this audience), Santa Clara Valley is better(?) known as Silicon Valley. It's where Apple's based, and it's unpleasantly warm spot in the US for SARS-CoV-2 infections.

Please tell that the virus, if you take a closer look at even warmer spots like New Orleans.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/map-reveals-hidde...

Re: Apple Faceshield

#536

Post by brodie »

megablast wrote: post #351
epicureanideal wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that they probably would cost $1 to $5, and take almost no space to store, it wouldn't be a terrible thing for people to have a few if they want them. How many people have a $20 multi-tool that stays in a drawer somewhere? Or some bags of rice "just in case" that end up getting thrown in the trash after being forgotten about in the cabinet for 5 years? It may not be a terrible thing if some percentage of people…

It is incredible how selfish people are. The frontline workers are desperate for any kind of PPE, but we still have random people, who are mostly staying at home, that want to get in the front of the line.

The majority of the replies from non-medical professionals here on this supposedly intelligent forum perfectly illustrates why that happens. People think they can tackle any problem and come to the correct conclusion with a minute of thinking alone, with no real knowledge or experience or testing. Now extrapolate that to the entire US or world and it is sadly not surprising that people think they know best and doctors and nurses and patients be damned.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#537

Post by roenxi »

brodie wrote: post #528
roenxi wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that with great confidence and a lack of sources; and I'm guessing we are equally ignorant on the actual physics of how small droplets move. The details aren't clear on how the virus is spreading. The virus might have multiple modes of transmission. Closing 2 of them reliably a great deal. There are important things to do with "catching COVID" that aren't binary; starting doses likely matter as well. I'd rath…

It’s okay to admit you’re wrong. It’s okay to not understand everything. It’s okay to defer to experts. So many people on HN and in tech have the same attitude that if they just spend 5 minutes thinking about something then they can intuit an answer and that they must be right. This is a dangerous way of thinking. If anyone took what you’ve been saying as correct they’d be endangering themselves and depriving medical…

But I'm getting my opinions from the experts? See [0]. They recommend covering your face. I agree with them that cloth is more effective than a plastic shield but I'd expect a plastic shield to still be better than nothing. You've got to try and stop droplets from leaving your mouth and reaching other people.

A face shield would be better than failing to create a makeshift covering from a shirt for most people and it'd be resistant to decomposing so it could be stored long term in a home. It'd be a reasonable thing to stockpile.

[0] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-si...

Re: Apple Faceshield

#538

Post by brodie »

sailfast wrote: post #287
dx87 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but staying home is even more effective at preventing exchange of droplets. The face shields should be going to people who can't stay home and are forced to be around contagious people.

I’d like to leave my house in a month or two. You?

You’re allowed to leave your house. Exercise, pet walking, and essential shopping and other essential activities aren’t banned. Put on a mask and go for a walk in your neighborhood and keep social distancing.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#539

Post by simonh »

bosswipe wrote: post #523
simonh wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are only used by doctors and nurses when treating patients with open airways at very close range to protect from direct splatters with body fluids. Eg when intubating a patient that’s having explosive coughing fits. They are also part of a complete protective system including a mask, elasticated hair cover, full body wrap aprons and long arm gloves. There is no point using a shield without the rest if the gear…

If it's only for that narrow use case then a million per week seems excessive and unnecessary.

There are about a million infected individuals right now, and climbing, and each hospitalised patient in ITU may need these procedures several times a day. An ITU team performing the procedure might consist of 2 to 4 people and the shields should be discarded every time. The number of patients is also rising rapidly, so demand is very high.

When you see doctors and nurses in full scrubs with face shields doing their shopping, then you know you need this equipment. However if you're really concerned there are other options[0].

[0]https://www.amazon.com/Sinoocean-Astronaut-Spaceman-Costume-...

Re: Apple Faceshield

#540

Post by brodie »

samatman wrote: post #384
docbrown wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was hoping everyone in the US might be able to buy one. This burst of PPE being produced in mass quantities are and were never meant to go in the hands of the general public (i.e., non healthcare workers), though. The general public does not need to be walking around with a full face shield, that’ll be a waste of materials, time and money, unfortunately.

The general public includes about a hundred thousand people whose job puts them in touch with everyone: mostly checkout clerks. They are at great risk for infection and for being vectors of infection, and are performing an essential service. These face masks are a great piece of technology for them: effective, reusable, and comfortable enough to wear for a full shift.

These aren’t masks. Shields aren’t going to be as helpful as masks and medical workers need them much more and we need medical workers to stay alive.
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