Apple Faceshield • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Faceshield

#461

Post by Dylan16807 » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 1:51 AM UTC

mbreese wrote: post #429

BalinKing wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the recommendations by many countries to wear even cloth masks (e.g. the recent reversal by the CDC) _because_ there's a good chance COVID-19 can spread via large (i.e. non-aerosolized) respiratory droplets? (Not that it doesn't also spread in other ways, but removing even one vector would be better in this case than not doing so.)

I'm not sure why there is a recommendation to wear cloth masks in other countries (not discounting it, I just haven't looked). However, I believe that the primary rationale for the CDC switching their recommendation that everyone should wear masks has to do with the great numbers of asymptomatic carriers. In this scenario, wearing a mask is not designed to protect the wearer from others. Wearing an ill-fitting mask i…

> Wearing cloth masks resulted in significantly higher rates of infection, the authors found. They also noted that in their test, the cloth masks were only 3 percent effective at blocking particles.

Hoo boy that's misleading by itself. The control group was "use what you normally use", and had the following numbers:

> In the control arm, 170/458 (37%) used medical masks, 38/458 (8%) used cloth masks, and 245/458 (53%) used a combination of both medical and cloth masks during the study period.

Given those numbers, it's basically impossible to use this data to tell us anything about the efficacy of cloth mask vs. no mask. The control group did wear their masks less often, but it's still very unhelpful data.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#462

Post by woah » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 1:51 AM UTC

mdorazio wrote: post #441

woah wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This design seems pretty odd to me. You already have to have a machine that cuts thin sheet plastic to make the transparent shield part, right? The actual headband is then just another small piece of plastic sheet in Apple's (and others) designs. Seems to me that adding in a 3d printer can only slow things down, since it would be much faster to simply cut the headband with the same equipment that is cutting the shiel…

I've been making these for a couple weeks now. The clear plastic part is generally sourced using the thick binder/presentation covers that come in 8.75x11.25 inch sheets, precut. The only requirement is a hole punch. Headbands can be any elastic material (I've been using button hole elastic for easy adjustment).

By headband I mean the part that you are 3d printing. Both designs still need an elastic strap.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#463

Post by pkage » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 1:58 AM UTC

gambler wrote: post #256

leipert wrote: post #195

The Czech 3D Printer company Prusa has been on it for a while: https://www.prusa3d.com/covid19/ and they have been open-sourcing the design. You can print it on a 3D printer. Based on that design (and others) makers in Germany have started organizing, so that people can either request shields or supply shields. Organized on Slack and into local distribution hubs. We hace started sharing supplies and even got discount…

What is the point of 3d printing something that clearly needs to be mass-produced in great quantities? Maybe it "feels good", but it's just too slow. I'm honestly not sure why people don't just use plastic food wrap as a cheap improvised alternative for face shields. It's lightweight, readily available, disposable, fits over any attire and does not restrict visibility.

Every little bit helps, and being able to desk-produce these means that you can make an impact directly and quickly. My parents are both still treating patients, and I was able to print 25+ masks for their practice.

While we're waiting for mass production to step up, these local productions make a difference now.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#464

Post by ksec » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 2:03 AM UTC

awinder wrote: post #58

I can hear Jony Ive describing it as "fashioned from a single continuous pane of clear polymer" in my ears right now...

I wish Jony Ive still narrate all the Apple video. Without his voice everything seems boring. I want that "Aluminium"

Re: Apple Faceshield

#465

Post by Polylactic_acid » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 2:05 AM UTC

bloopernova wrote: post #10

gowld wrote: post #6

Context: https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/5/21209270/apple-face-shield... “Our first shipment was delivered to Kaiser hospital facilities in the Santa Clara Valley this past week, and the feedback from doctors was very positive,” Cook says. “These pack flat, one hundred per box. Each shield is assembled in less than two minutes and is fully adjustable. We’re sourcing materials and manufacturing in the US and China.” A…

Thank you! I had missed this news, so a link to a support article with no explanation was a little mystifying.

I expected this to be for apple factory workers, surprised to see its being sold to other companies.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#466

Post by jasoneckert » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 2:06 AM UTC

As I read this post for the Apple Face Shield on support.apple.com, my girlfriend looked over my shoulder and said "Hmm. Well, it has a better keyboard than the MacBook Pro."

I thought this was too funny not to share.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#467

Post by Polylactic_acid » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 2:07 AM UTC

Talanes wrote: post #426

samatman wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general public includes about a hundred thousand people whose job puts them in touch with everyone: mostly checkout clerks. They are at great risk for infection and for being vectors of infection, and are performing an essential service. These face masks are a great piece of technology for them: effective, reusable, and comfortable enough to wear for a full shift.

It's very simple to just put up a full shield between the clerk and the customers, you don't need to strap the shield to people's faces when there's a static point of contact.

This has the benefit of preventing you from touching your face after touching things customers have touched.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#468

Post by bsagdiyev » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 2:09 AM UTC

Loughla wrote: post #121

bragh wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't even told that about those things in HS chemistry in my time in my country, not sure why - considered too dangerous knowledge by educators? Only found out about it on 4chan and gasped on how easily we could have accidentally injured ourselves while cleaning our dorm bathroom.

I learned about these from the book "A Child Called It". When the abusive parent uses the bleach+ammonia mixture on him. Then I tried to figure out what else bleach could do. This is not a healthy line of experimenting for a dumb 17 year old. I 100% believe HS chem should teach this. Then at least you know what not to do.

Wow, I wasn't sure if it was just me! Coincidentally that was also the same book I learned about those two being dangerous mixed together. Just curious, have you read "Go ask Alice"?

Re: Apple Faceshield

#469

Post by rhexs » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 2:12 AM UTC

beerandt wrote: post #407

WillPostForFood wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You store it in your home, then wear it when you go line up for food in case the person next to you turns and coughs or sneezes.

Imagine being at the gas pump, and the person next to you sprays gasoline at you. A faceshield might keep your face from getting soaking wet, but if you smell the fumes, it hasn't prevented exposure to your sinuses or lungs. Except you can't smell a virus.

I'm hoping Doctors aren't being hosed down with concentrated gallons of trillions and trillions of virus. PPEs aren't going to do much in that situation.

Re: Apple Faceshield

#470

Post by dlubarov » Wed, Apr 08, 2020, 2:13 AM UTC

pertymcpert wrote: post #451

roenxi wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that with great confidence and a lack of sources; and I'm guessing we are equally ignorant on the actual physics of how small droplets move. The details aren't clear on how the virus is spreading. The virus might have multiple modes of transmission. Closing 2 of them reliably a great deal. There are important things to do with "catching COVID" that aren't binary; starting doses likely matter as well. I'd rath…

This is just common sense. Aerosolized particles are not impeded by a shield. A shield is intended to obstruct ballistic projectiles. If those projectiles are aerosolized and are in the air that you breathe , then the shield will offer no protection at all. Even an N95 mask still can let in up to 5% of these particles. What efficacy is a piece of plastic in front of your face going to do against that?

> If those projectiles are aerosolized and are in the air that you breathe

It seems like you're imagining that the mucus and saliva particles would behave like a gas, but it's a suspension of liquid particles in the air, which behaves slightly differently. Think of breathing onto glass -- a lot of the aerosol I expel adheres to the glass. Some smaller droplets may move around it, but it's still preferable to receive a smaller dose of the virus.