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Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

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Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#91
post #47

This is a problem in the UK too. The independent school (aka private school) sector has seen fees double or triple over the last 10-20 years. This is largely driven by rich foreign students, primarily Chinese, sending their kids to these schools. I don't particularly regret these bastions of class division destroying their reputation for money, but there are a lot of knock on effects. Independent schools used to be o…

Given enough time it could go the other way - the schools' increased income from foreign students would subsidise more scholarships for local students. I'm under the impression they are nonprofit, so the money has to go somewhere?

I'm under the impression they are nonprofit, so the money has to go somewhere?

Charity status for public schools is a tax avoidance strategy. They're not really non-profits.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#92
post #86
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Education is now online and they cannot access any university resources. Why should they pay the same price for a quarter of the value?

So the value is not really about "education"?

It's the opposite surely.

Suppose you pay £8000 for a course of lectures, with materials and access to laboratories. Then the provider fire the lecturer, close the laboratories, ... surely you see there's an educational deficit then. It may be true you can pass an exam from the course texts and online materials that remain available, but the educational benefit would be exceedingly diminished.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#93
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a flood of student & ex-Airbnb apartments for rent in central Melbourne, currently ~6300: https://www.realestate.com.au/rent/in-melbourne,+vic+3000/li... I can't see international travel restrictions to Australia being relaxed until a vaccine is developed, so universities and landlords are going to be in a world of hurt.

> I can't see international travel restrictions to Australia being relaxed until a vaccine is developed Honest question: Australia wants to seriously lock its borders for 18-24 months? And what if a vaccine is not successful (despite tens in development, just two are being currently tested on humans)?

better question: do you really think that all these digital nomad/consultant types (most of them > 30) will just go out merrily, when the first 2,3 healthy people in their big number of acquaintances are dying?

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#94

Not just foreign. In the US even many university prefed out of state students, but will never admit to it.

My opinion on university education has flip flopped overtime with me leading toward it being a massive scam at the moment, but this time for reasons like what you mention.

Case in point: I found the perfect program for me: online CS bachelors, from a respected state school, very affordable. However, I cant even be considered a resident of the state I live and work in for several years and would be forced to pay out of state tuition, making it prohibitively expensive unless I want to be paying down loans the rest of my career.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#95
post #13

I work at a University in Australia and have been on both sides of academic and professional. This unravelling was on the horizon for everybody, maybe not so soon, but definitely in the viewport. In an effort to drive up income streams there has been a slow erosion of Australian education (more at some universities than others) to cater for the international (Chinese and Indian predominantly) market. There are all so…

Something I've noticed is that universities in the US no longer seem to advertise their primary mission as education, but as providing the "college experience".

Brochures are rife with amenities and activities like you're picking out a resort or extended summer camp where you can safely figure out who you are, make friends, and be protected until you're set free, job-pass in hand.

These advertisements are also primarily aimed at the parents.

My SO got a second degree several years ago, and all of her official and financial paperwork was addressed to "the parents of $SO". It was a bit shocking that there's so little expectation by universities for a legal adult to take agency in the process.

I only wonder how much of this process was a result of student demands for more parental oversight and involvement, and if the end result is better outcomes or merely justification of more money spent.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#96
Good article, but I want to clarify a point since it could leave the impression that it's universities themselves driving this growth race.

In the UK at least, we used to have a model where universities were funded by the government (through tax, of course) but the government also set hard limits on how many students you could enrol, with penalties for going over. The current model which Tony Blair in effect started and David Cameron completed removed this cap, and so opened the way for the current growth race.

Whether a university can survive under the new model, or even be better off than before without increasing student numbers depends on many things including the amount and kind of reasearch income, the proportion of international students they have and whether they're city-centre or campus-based. I would say most UK universities were faced with a choice between masively increasing student numbers or massively cutting expenditure to survive - lots of them seem to be doing a combination of both, which is one reason we've seen so many staff strikes this year. At least in several decent (Russell Group) universities that I know a bit about personally, it was very much a case of we have to grow by x% a year just to carry on paying our staff and bills. At least in the UK, I make a case that it's not just greedy unis and fat cat vice-chancellors driving this problem.

To give some numbers - the fees for home undergraduates are capped at £9250 a year and in a science or engineering degree with high equipment costs, it's hard to break even on these fees. International students are where the money really comes from, a one-year MSc degree can set you back £25k-£30k in fees alone although that usually includes doing a supervised project over the summer as well as attending an academic year's worth of teaching. Or at least, it'll include whatever supervision you can get this summer.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#97
post #75
post #13

I work at a University in Australia and have been on both sides of academic and professional. This unravelling was on the horizon for everybody, maybe not so soon, but definitely in the viewport. In an effort to drive up income streams there has been a slow erosion of Australian education (more at some universities than others) to cater for the international (Chinese and Indian predominantly) market. There are all so…

This reminds me of a New Statesmen article about UK universities[1], which point out university attendance has gone up 500% since 1990 and First class honours went from being awarded to 7% to being awarded to 29% of students. Either universities figured out a way of being 4x as effective teaching 5x as many students (with measurements for average intake attainment basically flat) - which would be a miracle. Or the ma…

Not to mention we have increased the amount of degrees in subjects with limited practical application to an idiotic degree. So a lot of the people who might have been practically useful to society now spend their lives screaming at it

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#98
post #13

I work at a University in Australia and have been on both sides of academic and professional. This unravelling was on the horizon for everybody, maybe not so soon, but definitely in the viewport. In an effort to drive up income streams there has been a slow erosion of Australian education (more at some universities than others) to cater for the international (Chinese and Indian predominantly) market. There are all so…

[flagged]

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#99
post #75
post #13

I work at a University in Australia and have been on both sides of academic and professional. This unravelling was on the horizon for everybody, maybe not so soon, but definitely in the viewport. In an effort to drive up income streams there has been a slow erosion of Australian education (more at some universities than others) to cater for the international (Chinese and Indian predominantly) market. There are all so…

This reminds me of a New Statesmen article about UK universities[1], which point out university attendance has gone up 500% since 1990 and First class honours went from being awarded to 7% to being awarded to 29% of students. Either universities figured out a way of being 4x as effective teaching 5x as many students (with measurements for average intake attainment basically flat) - which would be a miracle. Or the ma…

The cynical part of me says that as long as everyone's doing it, you can play this game and still keep your relative position in the league tables.

The total value of any given degree might well go down, but where else are the employers who have always done graduate schemes going to hire people from? Captive market.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#100
post #13

I work at a University in Australia and have been on both sides of academic and professional. This unravelling was on the horizon for everybody, maybe not so soon, but definitely in the viewport. In an effort to drive up income streams there has been a slow erosion of Australian education (more at some universities than others) to cater for the international (Chinese and Indian predominantly) market. There are all so…

Something I've noticed is that universities in the US no longer seem to advertise their primary mission as education, but as providing the "college experience". Brochures are rife with amenities and activities like you're picking out a resort or extended summer camp where you can safely figure out who you are, make friends, and be protected until you're set free, job-pass in hand. These advertisements are also primar…

> My SO got a second degree several years ago, and all of her official and financial paperwork was addressed to "the parents of $SO".

Are there no legal issues that could come up with this? Working with financial documents addressed to someone other than yourself?

I briefly touched on this elsewhere in this thread, but as a working professional who happens to still be very young and wanting to get my degree, universities are pissing me off. They create their own definitions of residency and independence that differ from the legal versions that seem to have no purpose but to extract more money from a potential student.

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