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Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

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41–50 of 247 posts

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#41
Diploma mill tourism is one of those phenomenons I really want to see all the externalities accounted for. My only significant issue is disrupting local housing-prices but student VISAs is one vehicle among many. Otherwise I don't really see the difference of gambling on a Chinese fuerdai vs trust fund legacy vs athletic scholarship. They're just different avenues of to building non-academic institutional prestige - the kind that's... important. Tuition aside, a bunch of rich kids that spends big into the economy is also a perk. They're perennial tourists that also occasionally shell out for an exotic car or three. I've known a few of these types, and they're kind of a mix bag. Some are just here to coast. Some are middling. Some are very intelligent, the kind of assets western educational institutions are designed to brain drain.

The latter point gets overlooked, enticing/stealing and retaining talent is a huge western soft power advantage. After separating the wheat from chaff higher up the academic chain, there's a disproportionate of foreign students in PhD and labs [1]. Without going into specific criticism of western secondary school education, the broad point is most countries just don't produce enough talent to fill demand. Also credentialism and educational inflation means many masters programs bend over backwards not to fail anyone. At least among my cohort who spans many types of masters and professional degrees, you get proportionally more unqualified locals getting pushed out of the program with just passing grades as foreign students who bought their way through. There seems to be pervasive pressure to hold graduation metric up because most people recognize, outside of some fields, what you learn is rarely applicable to what you do. And even fields where theres overlap, you have too much unqualified people getting the pass. Regardless, my point is, if we need to acquire talent, hedging against rich international students isn't the worst bet. The odds are overwhelmingly in the house favour. They pay you. Some of them are slackers, but many also received the best education from their home countries but can't make it to the top 1% cut off to enter extremely competitive and prestigious local institutions. Foreign students wanting to pour guaranteed money and potential talent into our society is something to be optimized for.

[1] https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/81-599-x/2016011/c-g/c-g...

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#42
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same attitude as you, but many of the wealthy, Chinese-raised students at my local (prestigious, private) university can't speak basic English. The school then has to choose to either fail the student or ignore their cheating. With a $250k incentive to choose the former, that's what they choose.

Has this been documented anywhere, by the way? You'd think that there would be more reporting around this topic.

reported by who?

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#43

What about "addiction" to foreign students' talent? STEM research in the US benefits hugely from its ability to siphon off the top students from all over the world. In China, for example, the best students from top-tier universities tend to go abroad for their graduate studies. American labs get a steady supply of the top international grad students. Many of them remain in the US afterwards, which boosts related indu…

Yes, this has long been true for postgraduate students, who are very valued members of most STEM departments. The worry relates to undergraduate students.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#44
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a flood of student & ex-Airbnb apartments for rent in central Melbourne, currently ~6300: https://www.realestate.com.au/rent/in-melbourne,+vic+3000/li... I can't see international travel restrictions to Australia being relaxed until a vaccine is developed, so universities and landlords are going to be in a world of hurt.

> I can't see international travel restrictions to Australia being relaxed until a vaccine is developed Honest question: Australia wants to seriously lock its borders for 18-24 months? And what if a vaccine is not successful (despite tens in development, just two are being currently tested on humans)?

It's all political rhetoric prepping people for the worst case at a time when few things were known.

Things change. The situation is extremely dynamic not static. And response will change too.

Germany is already thinking of scaling back its lockdown. So will Australia.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#45
post #13

I work at a University in Australia and have been on both sides of academic and professional. This unravelling was on the horizon for everybody, maybe not so soon, but definitely in the viewport. In an effort to drive up income streams there has been a slow erosion of Australian education (more at some universities than others) to cater for the international (Chinese and Indian predominantly) market. There are all so…

You sound like a bitter person.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody wants to shut down their country, they just want thousands of deaths even less. And there ain't no way for people travelling by plane to follow social distancing.

but people traveling by plane can certainly be sent to concentrated quarantine facilities upon arrival and monitored on an hourly basis for two or three weeks.

The Left won't have that. It'd be racist.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#47
This is a problem in the UK too.

The independent school (aka private school) sector has seen fees double or triple over the last 10-20 years. This is largely driven by rich foreign students, primarily Chinese, sending their kids to these schools.

I don't particularly regret these bastions of class division destroying their reputation for money, but there are a lot of knock on effects. Independent schools used to be one of the few paths for middle class mobility - scrounge enough to send your kids there, and they are basically guaranteed entry into the elite of British society. But these days the tuition is prohibitively expensive and prices out almost everyone. This just exacerbates the class divide even more in the UK.

The main issue though is that independent schools in the UK have non-profit status - so pay NO tax on the fees they charge. With the rising fees locking out most people from access to them, there is very little societal benefit to these schools. But as a taxpayer, I have to subsidize education for the very rich or rich foreign nationals. It's ridiculous.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but people traveling by plane can certainly be sent to concentrated quarantine facilities upon arrival and monitored on an hourly basis for two or three weeks.

The Left won't have that. It'd be racist.

You’d be amazed how fast people’s ideology changes when reality punches them in in the face repeatedly. Small costs borne by others people you don’t care about don’t matter. Large costs borne by you? People will adjust their actions very quickly and then explain how their ideology has always supported what they’re currently doing.

Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money

#50
post #47

This is a problem in the UK too. The independent school (aka private school) sector has seen fees double or triple over the last 10-20 years. This is largely driven by rich foreign students, primarily Chinese, sending their kids to these schools. I don't particularly regret these bastions of class division destroying their reputation for money, but there are a lot of knock on effects. Independent schools used to be o…

> I have to subsidize education for the very rich or rich foreign nationals

Not a penny of your tax goes to subsidising their education. The charitable status of private schools means that the money used for their education isn't taxed twice.

I agree that private schooling tends to exacerbate divisions. The majority of state school provision in the UK is atrocious. I have more concern that very little is being done about the second rate schooling we have than I do about the, relatively small, amount of first rate schooling in the private and state sectors.

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