I work at a University in Australia and have been on both sides of academic and professional. This unravelling was on the horizon for everybody, maybe not so soon, but definitely in the viewport. In an effort to drive up income streams there has been a slow erosion of Australian education (more at some universities than others) to cater for the international (Chinese and Indian predominantly) market. There are all so…
Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money
31–40 of 247 posts
Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money
#32Obligatory clip from Yes Minister https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WW7mhtp5a5E
Bailey College sounds a lot like Balliol College. I guess this was from the era where you didn't use actual names, though the universities themselves were named correctly IIRC (Hacker went to the LSE). The show also had imaginary countries that sounded like they belonged in certain regions. The comments about having classrooms is because the Oxford and Cambridge colleges tend not to teach people in groups the size yo…
Both of them! [0]
Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money
#33$AU 18b of revenue. The goal was significantly smaller when things started. What this has done to tertiary education in Australia is a very mixed bag. I love that we teach people. I hate what it has done to the system overall. Also, NZ and other regional players are exasperated with how Australia marketed. We didn't make things easy for any other players and now its all crashing down, there are mutters of "good"
> I love that we teach people. > I hate what it has done to the system overall. There are plenty of fine universities the scions of CCP members can attend in China that don't result in the long-term institutional destruction of your nation's educational system. "I love that we teach people" has all the meaninglessness of most feelings of charity, except the price you pay is losing a healthy, stable, focused universit…
Not everything is about china and the CCP. The problem is the venality of the university system now. It's a business.
Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money
#34If it can subsidize native students, it's not a bad thing, what's needed is an enviroment in which cheating and political manipulation can be freely called out.
I had the same attitude as you, but many of the wealthy, Chinese-raised students at my local (prestigious, private) university can't speak basic English. The school then has to choose to either fail the student or ignore their cheating. With a $250k incentive to choose the former, that's what they choose.
Isn't the former exactly what they should be choosing?
Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money
#35I work at a University in Australia and have been on both sides of academic and professional. This unravelling was on the horizon for everybody, maybe not so soon, but definitely in the viewport. In an effort to drive up income streams there has been a slow erosion of Australian education (more at some universities than others) to cater for the international (Chinese and Indian predominantly) market. There are all so…
There's a flood of student & ex-Airbnb apartments for rent in central Melbourne, currently ~6300: https://www.realestate.com.au/rent/in-melbourne,+vic+3000/li... I can't see international travel restrictions to Australia being relaxed until a vaccine is developed, so universities and landlords are going to be in a world of hurt.
Honest question: Australia wants to seriously lock its borders for 18-24 months? And what if a vaccine is not successful (despite tens in development, just two are being currently tested on humans)?
Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money
#36$AU 18b of revenue. The goal was significantly smaller when things started. What this has done to tertiary education in Australia is a very mixed bag. I love that we teach people. I hate what it has done to the system overall. Also, NZ and other regional players are exasperated with how Australia marketed. We didn't make things easy for any other players and now its all crashing down, there are mutters of "good"
> I love that we teach people. > I hate what it has done to the system overall. There are plenty of fine universities the scions of CCP members can attend in China that don't result in the long-term institutional destruction of your nation's educational system. "I love that we teach people" has all the meaninglessness of most feelings of charity, except the price you pay is losing a healthy, stable, focused universit…
Australia can't afford to have bad relations with China; they are too relevant and powerful in the Asia-Pacific region. If we are taking in and educating powerful Chinese students it has nothing to do with charity at any level.
Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money
#37Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money
#38I work at a University in Australia and have been on both sides of academic and professional. This unravelling was on the horizon for everybody, maybe not so soon, but definitely in the viewport. In an effort to drive up income streams there has been a slow erosion of Australian education (more at some universities than others) to cater for the international (Chinese and Indian predominantly) market. There are all so…
The thing that pisses me off the most is that the student services usually provide very little guidance to international students about their legal rights in Australia, leading to massive wage exploitation (this is a global problem -- I have friends in the EU -- namely Finland -- and the US that have suffered from this too). Fears over their visas being revoked mean that they are also very unlikely to report abuses by the university or their employers to anyone. I've had to plead with friends to report their employer to Fair Work for outright wage theft, and I know many people who were lied to by their employer into thinking they can work more hours than they can (which was then effectively used as implicit blackmail -- "if you report my abuses, I can get you kicked out of the country"). They didn't know better, because they weren't told by anyone.
And then there's work experience. Many degrees (especially in engineering fields) require practical work experience in order to complete your degree, but employers are incredibly reluctant to give international students unpaid internships (let's not get into the fact that unpaid internships are actually illegal in Australia, except for the specific case of university degrees it seems). My partner has dealt with employers who have explicitly said that they don't accept international students (which is not legal as it is discriminatory), and others have done it more slyly (international students can only work 20 hours a week during semester, so they put on the job description that you must work 21 hours a week). And universities don't help here either, in fact I'm going to name and shame UTS here. At a UTS Career Fair a few years ago, they specified which employers accepted international students and which didn't on the maps (only about a quarter did) and then they gave all of the international students different coloured name badges to local students. The net result was that international students were ignored when they came to any of the "local-only" booths. I don't know if they continued this behaviour, but I sent a complaint about this when I heard about it. Absolutely disgraceful.
Sorry, I just felt the need to rant.
Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's a flood of student & ex-Airbnb apartments for rent in central Melbourne, currently ~6300: https://www.realestate.com.au/rent/in-melbourne,+vic+3000/li... I can't see international travel restrictions to Australia being relaxed until a vaccine is developed, so universities and landlords are going to be in a world of hurt.
> I can't see international travel restrictions to Australia being relaxed until a vaccine is developed Honest question: Australia wants to seriously lock its borders for 18-24 months? And what if a vaccine is not successful (despite tens in development, just two are being currently tested on humans)?
Re: Universities forced to face addiction to foreign students’ money
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I can't see international travel restrictions to Australia being relaxed until a vaccine is developed Honest question: Australia wants to seriously lock its borders for 18-24 months? And what if a vaccine is not successful (despite tens in development, just two are being currently tested on humans)?
Nobody wants to shut down their country, they just want thousands of deaths even less. And there ain't no way for people travelling by plane to follow social distancing.