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Tesla Ventilator

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Re: Tesla Ventilator

#31

Post by baybal2 »

pdq wrote: post #27

Yes, this is an impressive amount of work done in a few weeks by a small team at Tesla. However, medical devices, especially for life support systems, are not a Hackathon project. These devices breathe air into patients lungs. They need to be manufactured in clean room conditions, with medical grade parts, not plumbing parts from a big box store. They must be designed and tested to ISO specifications. If this fails,…

> If this fails, the patient can die.

In the current situation, I doubt anybody will give any regard to your sentiment. Though, I myself will.

> The smarter idea is to ramp up existing proven designs, not reinvent the wheel and basically do a publicity stunt about your engineering talent.

This is what China did. Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V, and knockoff ventilators began to fly off assembly lines in less than a month.

P.S. In other news, A VERY BIG THING that no news seem to be reporting. China has effectively banned nearly every medical export as of April 1 through enforcement of impossible to comply paperwork:

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3077953/coro...

A man I know, who works at a medical clothing, and bedding factory, says that even such basic things that should not require any certification are now banned for export.

Re: Tesla Ventilator

#32

Post by tashoecraft »

pdq wrote: post #27

Yes, this is an impressive amount of work done in a few weeks by a small team at Tesla. However, medical devices, especially for life support systems, are not a Hackathon project. These devices breathe air into patients lungs. They need to be manufactured in clean room conditions, with medical grade parts, not plumbing parts from a big box store. They must be designed and tested to ISO specifications. If this fails,…

How much of all of that clean room conditions is truly necessary? I ask not to be combative or to just support Tesla, but I know the US has a habit of only accepting the absolute best medical equipment, whereas hospitals make do with good but not great equipment and are able to save lives and save money. There is a risk, but there is also the issue of peopling dying because of no ventilator. So what's better? Having no ventilator, or having an one that gets the job done but isn't made with "medical grade" equipment.

Re: Tesla Ventilator

#33

Post by Cthulhu_ »

kiba wrote: post #30
pdq wrote: post #27

Yes, this is an impressive amount of work done in a few weeks by a small team at Tesla. However, medical devices, especially for life support systems, are not a Hackathon project. These devices breathe air into patients lungs. They need to be manufactured in clean room conditions, with medical grade parts, not plumbing parts from a big box store. They must be designed and tested to ISO specifications. If this fails,…

The whole point of this project is not to use up supplies needed to build ventilator but to compliment the ventilators they are already building by using Tesla parts. This is fundamentally a logistics project. Plus, they have access to Medtronic engineers, and as long as the FDA approve the devices, I have no problem with it.

But how long will an FDA approval take? Are they likely to take shortcuts because it's an emergency?

I mean personally I wouldn't object to them lowering requirements temporarily because we're in a crisis situation, but I hope they won't give permanent approval for all of the hacked ventilators that a lot of companies seem to be producing right now - once the pressure is off, stop using the temporary ones until they've been pulled through the FDA wringer thoroughly.

Re: Tesla Ventilator

#34

Post by kiba »

Retric wrote: post #13
sschueller wrote: post #7

For more background info on what is needed for a ventilator and why it isn't that simple: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22779665

The Tesla prototype seems much closer to a medical ventilator than most of the overly simplified models shown in that video. Working Medtronic is likely a large advantage here. Adjusting air temperature and humidity seems like the biggest missing piece.

This is a very good point. I incorporated the fact that they have access to Medtronic engineers into my post, or at least they have Elon Musk who can talk to their engineers.

Re: Tesla Ventilator

#35

Post by tazjin »

baybal2 wrote: post #31
pdq wrote: post #27

Yes, this is an impressive amount of work done in a few weeks by a small team at Tesla. However, medical devices, especially for life support systems, are not a Hackathon project. These devices breathe air into patients lungs. They need to be manufactured in clean room conditions, with medical grade parts, not plumbing parts from a big box store. They must be designed and tested to ISO specifications. If this fails,…

> If this fails, the patient can die. In the current situation, I doubt anybody will give any regard to your sentiment. Though, I myself will. > The smarter idea is to ramp up existing proven designs, not reinvent the wheel and basically do a publicity stunt about your engineering talent. This is what China did. Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V, and knockoff ventilators began to fly off assembly lines in less than a month. P.S. In oth…

> In the current situation, I doubt anybody will give any regard to your sentiment. Though, I myself will.

I think the thought process for a lot of people will go more along the lines of "If you were given the choice of not having a ventilator (because they ran out) and dying, or using an unproven Tesla ventilator and maybe surviving, what would you do?".

That's assuming that Tesla (or other companies working on this) actually ends up manufacturing and supplying these things, and this is not just a publicity stunt.

Re: Tesla Ventilator

#36

Post by dahfizz »

pdq wrote: post #27

Yes, this is an impressive amount of work done in a few weeks by a small team at Tesla. However, medical devices, especially for life support systems, are not a Hackathon project. These devices breathe air into patients lungs. They need to be manufactured in clean room conditions, with medical grade parts, not plumbing parts from a big box store. They must be designed and tested to ISO specifications. If this fails,…

> The smarter idea is to ramp up existing proven designs, not reinvent the wheel and basically do a publicity stunt about your engineering talent.

Those are not mutually exclusive. Yes, it would be great if we could produce more ventilators, but Tesla has no impact on "real" ventilator production either way.

This is obviously a PR piece. I see nothing wrong with a company trying to improve their brand's perception by trying to save lives.

Re: Tesla Ventilator

#37

Post by nsxwolf »

Are ventilators even helping? I see numbers like a 30% survival rate in some places, but they don't mention if that means "aren't dead yet" or recovered and removed from the ventilator. I definitely read about people who have successfully been removed and are recovering, but that's all anecdotal.

Re: Tesla Ventilator

#39

Post by djoldman »

pdq wrote: post #27

Yes, this is an impressive amount of work done in a few weeks by a small team at Tesla. However, medical devices, especially for life support systems, are not a Hackathon project. These devices breathe air into patients lungs. They need to be manufactured in clean room conditions, with medical grade parts, not plumbing parts from a big box store. They must be designed and tested to ISO specifications. If this fails,…

If a doctor believes it is 99% likely that a patient will die without a ventilator and none are available, then why wouldn't they try something like the one from Tesla?

A choice between almost certain death and possible life isn't really a choice.

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