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Anatomy of long sales letter

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Re: Anatomy of long sales letter

#51

Post by coryrc »

JeremyReeves wrote: post #39
feverishaaron wrote: post #31

It's interesting how people divide themselves into two separate camps when it comes to landing page/direct marketing (which are brothers of the same mother). The fact is, both longform and shortform work. But why they work and which context depends on the type of product you are offering and your sales model. Long form works best for: * Simple to understand products which have difficult to achieve benefits (weight lo…

FANTASTIC comment! :) Believe it or not, I DON'T only do long-form salesletters so I don't divide myself into a "long-form-only" camp. Typically what I do is figure out what the client needs... assess the market/product,etc... and do 1 or the other to START. However, if I'm not absolutely positive that whatever form I'm using will work - I always recommend that the client test a longer copy page versus a shorter copy…

When I read those "long form" salesletters, I can tell they are just stories written to divide a fool and his money.

Your comment is written in the same exact way. It isn't formal language (substituting 1 for one, for example), so I assume you write that way to seem "authentic" and "trustworthy", like you aren't trying to take advantage of someone. You throw superfluous, vague praises at every chance, hoping to ingratiate yourself with the "customer". Another annoying thing is how long it takes to express a short, simple idea -- the opposite of good communication. Unfortunately, your kind will continue to exist, as PT Barnum was right about suckers.

Your comment could have been written much more clearly:

I don't only do long-form salesletters so I don't divide myself into a "long-form-only" camp. Typically I assess the market/product, etc and start with one form or the other. However, if I'm not absolutely positive that whatever form I'm using will work - I always recommend that the client test a longer copy page versus a shorter copy page. You need to put out all your selling points, and defuse all the objectives. And you end it right there without any "extra" words. That could be 300 words or 10,000 words. Like you said - it depends on a TON of variables!

If you had written that, I would not have felt my intelligence insulted.

Re: Anatomy of long sales letter

#52

Post by nhangen »

JeremyReeves wrote: post #43
nhangen wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That comment is from my own experience. I've sold a bit of both in my day, and while I don't hate long form copy, I hate pages that look like crap, such as some of those examples. Again, I'm not hating on you, or your piece, but the fact that often times long form copy is associated with horrid design. That's the trend I want to see disappear.

No offense taken. I'm actually personally re-doing the order form on the 1 example so it looks more "clean". The design doesn't matter though. "Pretty" doesn't sell. Trust me on that one. What sells is understanding your customer, having a product which gives them exactly what they need at a fair price, and showing that customer how different that product is from other similar products.

I guess it depends on your customer.

Re: Anatomy of long sales letter

#53

Post by JeremyReeves »

macournoyer wrote: post #38

FWIW, I A/B tested a "long" sales letter with a cleaner, shorter and nicer looking one (imo) for my info product targeted at programmers. Long: http://createyourproglang.com/index2.html Short: http://createyourproglang.com/ I've let the experiment run for a few months and the results were never concluding, ~50% each the whole time. My guess is that most of my buyers are pre-sold by affiliates, or via word of mouth, a…

1 thing I noticed is that the longer version is REALLY cramped and a lot harder to read than the short version.

I'd suggest making a lot more white space in the longer version for easier reading.

The shorter version also has a headline, the longer kind of does but it's not noticeable.

Keep running tests - you'll find a winner! :)

Re: Anatomy of long sales letter

#54

Post by JeremyReeves »

coryrc wrote: post #51
JeremyReeves wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FANTASTIC comment! :) Believe it or not, I DON'T only do long-form salesletters so I don't divide myself into a "long-form-only" camp. Typically what I do is figure out what the client needs... assess the market/product,etc... and do 1 or the other to START. However, if I'm not absolutely positive that whatever form I'm using will work - I always recommend that the client test a longer copy page versus a shorter copy…

When I read those "long form" salesletters, I can tell they are just stories written to divide a fool and his money. Your comment is written in the same exact way. It isn't formal language (substituting 1 for one, for example), so I assume you write that way to seem "authentic" and "trustworthy", like you aren't trying to take advantage of someone. You throw superfluous, vague praises at every chance, hoping to ingra…

Here's an idea.

Work on getting a more positive outlook on life in general. It'll get you very far :)

Re: Anatomy of long sales letter

#55

Post by JeremyReeves »

Klinky wrote: post #49
JeremyReeves wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to read a lot of BAD salesletters written by lousy copywriters. And THAT is where the difference is. In my letters, my claims are backed up with proof. The testimonials are of people you can call on the phone. And I personally use the product before I even START writing. Bad copy written by an unethical copywriter sucks. Good copy written by a great copywriter will keep your eyes glued on the page as long as…

Well, it's very easy to manipulate people in need. A lot of these scam sites go after people with medical conditions. Example: "Forbidden Neck Pain Relief", should stay forbidden because it's a lame scam. http://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/www.losethebackpain.com They've also clogged up google for the keywords "Jesse Cannone scam" with fake reviews/testimonials. They're selling snake oil. It's typical scam behavior, m…

I hate to tell you, but it DOES make it true.

Because I personally deal with back and neck pain (fell out of a 25 ft. tree)... have personally used his products... and they personally gave ME relief.

I don't promote crappy products. I personally test EVERY single product I promote to make sure it's going to help people.

Re: Anatomy of long sales letter

#56

Post by JeremyReeves »

blhack wrote: post #6

This is what terrifies me so much about being a [mostly] sole-founder. If I saw something like this in my mail, I would immediately throw it away and probably have a few thoughts about how out of touch the person who commissioned it was. But if it really does "convert like crazy", it means that any wisdom I have about marketing (and most of the wisdom given out by fellow geeks, designers, and most marketers) is almos…

Well it's great that you admit you might be wrong. 99% of people are so limited in their thinking that the thought of being wrong wouldn't even cross their minds :)

That being said, always understand that in marketing - it's not about YOU.

It's about the prospect.

Like I said... test something fancy against something longer (but written by a great copywriter... just because it's long doesn't mean it's good).

Let the test dictate who your market is :)

Re: Anatomy of long sales letter

#57

Post by JeremyReeves »

jeremydavid wrote: post #19
blhack wrote: post #6

This is what terrifies me so much about being a [mostly] sole-founder. If I saw something like this in my mail, I would immediately throw it away and probably have a few thoughts about how out of touch the person who commissioned it was. But if it really does "convert like crazy", it means that any wisdom I have about marketing (and most of the wisdom given out by fellow geeks, designers, and most marketers) is almos…

If you were in the market for a, lets say, refrigerator, and you were sent a detailed letter explaining why Brand X Refrigerators keep food fresh longer and save you money on electricity - would you really throw it away?

Jeremy - great point.

MOST people wouldn't throw it away if it was a good letter, and you would make a lot more sales.

The only people who would throw it away are those with very limited minds... who I wouldn't want as my customer anyway! ;)

Re: Anatomy of long sales letter

#58

Post by JeremyReeves »

wmboy wrote: post #37

It seems the long sales letter is slowly being replaced by video sales letters. Personally I think video sales letters would be more effective but they also have the inherent problem that people viewing the page at work (or other similar situation) won't be able to see the video (unless they bookmark it and view it later which is unlikely). I think combining a mixture of the short sales letter, video sales letter and…

They're not being "replaced"... but video letters typically do help conversions.

And yes, great ideas about mixing it up.

That's the KEY to all of this. You don't know exactly what will work best - the answer lies in testing it out! :)

Re: Anatomy of long sales letter

#59

Post by JeremyReeves »

nhangen wrote: post #52
JeremyReeves wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense taken. I'm actually personally re-doing the order form on the 1 example so it looks more "clean". The design doesn't matter though. "Pretty" doesn't sell. Trust me on that one. What sells is understanding your customer, having a product which gives them exactly what they need at a fair price, and showing that customer how different that product is from other similar products.

I guess it depends on your customer.

EXACTLY :)

Re: Anatomy of long sales letter

#60

Post by JeremyReeves »

tluyben2 wrote: post #14

Designers are not the only ones who 'hate' these kind of letters; most people I know would hit back immediately without checking out the page when encountering 'the deck'. But they do work though; I've tried them and people (whom I don't know?) seem to click & buy.

Yep, exactly.

It all depends on what gives you the highest conversions. It's really as simple as that.

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