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Three free meals available daily for any New Yorker

schools.nyc.gov

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Re: Three free meals available daily for any New Yorker

#481
post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious on this food desert thing. Is access to food less than it was 50 years ago? Access to fruits and vegetables during winter/fall months is a new thing since now we have better supply chains and international trade(winter crop is from Mexico). Its weird to me since i grew up in Saudi Arabia on a compound, a true food desert and lived off powdered milk, ramen, and other non perishable foods we could buy from the…

Everything is available, but not necessarily economically available to the poor. It has definitely changed in the past 50years — notably the buying power has gone down massively because wages have not kept up with rent/healthcare/education. You need to save somewhere. If you don’t pay rent you become homeless so you focus on less acute cuts — like substituting bread and cereals for salad, etc. Eating is easy in the U…

" notably the buying power has gone down massively because wages have not kept up with rent/healthcare/education."

This is simply not true, it's the other way around. Food has never before been easier to access and cheaper. [1]

[1] https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/03/02/389578089/yo...

Re: Three free meals available daily for any New Yorker

#482

One of those things I wish could out last this virus. We'd be so much better off as a society if we could at least keep our people fed. The comments in here seem a little negative currently but this is great news. Think of all the people in NYC who didn't have access to clean and regular food before the virus.

I wonder if the food will be delivered home, or you'll have to go to some store. Going to some store and lining up is very demoralising thing. If food comes to your home from normal delivery with no different labeling then for paying customers, we could achieve new moral highs.

Is this satire?

Not only should people get 'free food' but someone else should have to deliver it to them as well so that they have 'equality'?

Re: Three free meals available daily for any New Yorker

#483
post #302

One of those things I wish could out last this virus. We'd be so much better off as a society if we could at least keep our people fed. The comments in here seem a little negative currently but this is great news. Think of all the people in NYC who didn't have access to clean and regular food before the virus.

A general leftward trend is inevitable after this crisis passes. Neoliberalism is facing its toughest challenge; the nordic socioeconomic model has never looked better.

Nordic countries are pragmatically ethnocentric, mandatory military service, have state Churches and official state religions, popular Monarchies (Sweden's royal family is more popular in Sweden than the UK Monarchs in the UK), and people, in general, are nice but the furthest thing from 'PC' as we understand it. They are economically left-wing, but the culture is very closed.

The very consideration of the 'Nordic Model' is almost absurd because it ignores the other 80% of the situation which is the social fabric that's not part of the political system.

New York has 23% of the population functionally illiterate and there's a perfect correlation between literacy and success and health in every domain. So that would be a really good place to start.

And there are a zillion obviously unfair things in the US that could be fixed.

So much low-hanging fruit before a comparative basis is even needed.

Re: Three free meals available daily for any New Yorker

#484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"milk can’t be frozen, like meat, or stuck in a silo, like grain" ...but it can be dried. I bought some powdered milk during my preparation and have been using it to cook with, for which it's been great. In a pinch you can drink it, or use it to extend fresh milk, if you have any. It can be stored for a long time, too. I know it's not ideal, but it's better than throwing milk away.

Or do what we’ve done for millennia: make cheese. Hard to DIY (I think? Or I overestimate), but at an industrial scale, already a thing. Takes up a lot less space too. Finally, milk can be UHT’d and is then shelf stable for ~40 weeks. Then is starts to form sediments... dunno if that’s actually bad.

> Or do what we’ve done for millennia: make cheese.

Or do the next best thing as cheese making requires elaborate infrastructure, preps and a very refined skill-set (its basically bio-chemistry), which is to feed local livestock with it directly; when I worked in Bern I got the honor to apprentice for a day under one of the most highly regarded Emantaler Cheese Masters in the Country. My day started at 3am where I got there and began reaching out to the local livestock farmers by phone or email asking the list of regulars if they would be available to pick up the whey until about 5am while the cheese maker and his staff sterilized everything and got there preps ready. In addition to it being a sustainable practice I learned at lunch that he was also paid for this by the local farmers which helped him offset expenses and provide a very valued service to the community.

By 10am when the cheese wheels had already been formed and was in the brine we had 5 livestock farmers ready outside to come pick up ~3000 liters of whey to feed their animals and we just emptied the hose from the fermentation vat to their containers. It all just made perfect sense and moved me to try and model this in my bahaviour moving forward.

By my 2nd year when I went to Italy and ran the farm and the Kitchen in the agrotourism I worked directly with the owner/artisan Cheese maker (much smaller operation and herd) and he was just dumping the whey into the drain after production.

I told him I'd get a couple of chickens and would upcycle the wasted bread and whey and provide to provide them with feed in addition to the food scraps we had and could have egg laying hens producing in a month or two and would highlight it on the menu, as well as have another attraction for the patrons to visit before/after Dinner. By the time I left, our group of volunteer and BnB guest's food budget went down 50% because I was able to feed them and also sell them by the dozen to restaurant patrons at 5 Euros/Dozen. One of the front of house girls started to make nice woven baskets from straw and we included fig jam (that could be made for pennies) she'd make from the excess harvest.

I honestly think the real core issue is that we've normalized this expendable resource narrative to its furthest extreme, which the Earth cannot take any more, and its such that that only a generation ago your grandmother (if you're millennial aged) would be aghast at the sight.

The bigger problem is that these people then have entered office, or roles of supervision and created or enforce legislation that rewards that disastrous mentality and it keeps Food producers content (just enough) with subsidies that distorts all of this and has ripple effects all down the supply chain.

Re: Three free meals available daily for any New Yorker

#485

NYC today, everywhere else in a few days/weeks. Without universal basic income, we are totally f@cked. 30-40% of people are without income and it's either soup kitchens and spike in crime, or UBI.

Wow, I am being downvoted for something so obvious. Totally puzzled.

Re: Three free meals available daily for any New Yorker

#486
post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything is available, but not necessarily economically available to the poor. It has definitely changed in the past 50years — notably the buying power has gone down massively because wages have not kept up with rent/healthcare/education. You need to save somewhere. If you don’t pay rent you become homeless so you focus on less acute cuts — like substituting bread and cereals for salad, etc. Eating is easy in the U…

" notably the buying power has gone down massively because wages have not kept up with rent/healthcare/education." This is simply not true, it's the other way around. Food has never before been easier to access and cheaper. [1] [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/03/02/389578089/yo...

The article mentions nothing to your counter. The article talks simply about food. My point was, as you quoted, wages have not kept up with rent/healthcare/education. Food is one only member of what one spends on. (Also note, if you compare wages to cost-of-living, avoid studies which conveniently leave out rent/housing/healthcare/college. If you narrowly define anything you can make it look good.)

You are more likely to skimp on food than rent. If you skimp on rent, you end up homeless. Sure, initially, you can squeeze into smaller and smaller apartments, but eventually you're homeless. You can skimp on healthcare and education, or you can skimp on food -- where you dont see the effect immediately.

Food being a bargain doesnt help if you have barely anything left over to spend on food.

Secondly w/r/t food quality, as the article mentions, quoted below, some foods have gotten cheaper (sugar, soybeans) while others (meat, eggs) have gotten more expensive. This is another problem being discussed on this thread -- what you get for the money is not really what you need nutritiously. Sure, perhaps you dont starve, but you end up obese from eating the worst sorts of foods.

from artlicle: "That may be true in general terms, and as NPR's Marilyn Geewax reported in February, soybeans, sugar and wheat are all cheaper than they were a few years ago.

But as we've reported, there has been volatility in the price of plenty of other food items. And key staples like beef and eggs are actually more expensive these days than they have been."

Re: Three free meals available daily for any New Yorker

#487
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As of 2018 40 million Americans received more than 57 billion dollars in SNAP. It seems like largely the US has been and will continue to keep people fed. Note also that this is just 1 Federal program and doesn't mention the multitude of other state level and city level programs that exist as well as private charities, religious organizations, etc. Please note I am not saying the system is perfect, shouldn't be expan…

The average SNAP recipient receives about $4 a day and sees their balance run out after just 17 days. This is not enough.

When I moved to SF, I was probably eating for $2.50 a day. It's totally possible if you buy 20lb bags of rice and beans.

Re: Three free meals available daily for any New Yorker

#488
post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. "Job guarantee" program. There's a write-up here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job_guarantee I also like the idea of UBI combined with a flat tax (losing progressive taxation) for it's simplicity, but imagine all the tax lawyers and accountants that would be out of a job.

It seems like a Job Guarantee program would be something that both Democrats and Republicans could support. I'm surprised it hasn't been done already (other than in the Great Depression). Questions... 1. How would that program handle people who were unwilling to work? Possible answer off the top of my head: maybe they get sent home or terminated from the program for a period of time, and the pay for the "Job Guarante…

Those unwilling to work would be sent home and temporarily suspended.

A reasonable appeal process and the ability to change managers or move to a different site.

I would build vocational training into this. You are in training either at your choice or as an assignment. Looking for another job would also be acceptable. If you don't have a GED, your only option would be training. I view unemployment as mismatch between the skills you have and the work that needs to be done or there is a slack in demand and we are trying to figure out what to do. I would build a strong scholarship program for those who demonstrate the ability for university level education. You would demonstrate that by your efforts in other training.

Making the pay less than minimum wage I think would be counter-productive. I would eliminate minimum wage and use this as a counter balance to compete with businesses that rely on minimum wage workers.

Re: Three free meals available daily for any New Yorker

#489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like a Job Guarantee program would be something that both Democrats and Republicans could support. I'm surprised it hasn't been done already (other than in the Great Depression). Questions... 1. How would that program handle people who were unwilling to work? Possible answer off the top of my head: maybe they get sent home or terminated from the program for a period of time, and the pay for the "Job Guarante…

Jobs guarantee could be popular like awful "workfare", but it's oftenstill stupidly resting on the assumption that full employment is good, and UBI without full employment is inherently inflationary.

You still need production at times and you don't want people losing momentum. It is hard to go from not working to working at a good pace. Keeping people in a working mind set I think is important.

Re: Three free meals available daily for any New Yorker

#490
post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as a note on this - low income have higher obesity rates, because many of them live in food deserts, without access to quality produce, or other regular staples. Further, high-calorie, low nutrition foods are cheaper in the US, and therefore more accessible. Fat people =/= healthy distribution system of food.

The 'food desert' concept is a fantasy, there is no such thing. In fact, trying to understand how such an upside-down false narrative could even exist, is the more interesting aspect of the 'food desert' phenom. The density of fresh food is indeed lower in some areas, but always within reach. More important, this an issue of supply and demand: food is the most ancient of all commerce. Where people want to buy a food,…

Have you ever been to an actual low-income, rural area? Or low-income urban area? Seriously?

Midwest US, not even truly rural, like in the hills of Kentucky, rural, and the closest grocery store to me is 1 hour away. There are convenience stores, full of sugary snacks. No actual 'food' in you would think of it. When I worked in Tenessee, I was 3 hours from the closest grocery store. The only 'food' stores by your definition were gas stations. Full of. . . sugary, high calorie, low nutrition foods.

North corridor in St. Louis, there is an entire swath of hte city without access to grocery stores, bodegas, or whatever else fills the niche. There are dollar stores filled with ---- sugary snacks and other high calorie, low nutrition foods. There are non-profits who have the only goal of bringing in grocery stores. During the Ferguson riots/uprising (depending on your views) one of the main asks was access to grocery stores. Why do you think that was?

You are pushing a false narrative. Food deserts exist. Your hand waving type of claim is just ridiculous.

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