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What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

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Re: What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

#51

Post by jarvist »

dimtion wrote: post #25

Is there a a good read on how RNA and DNA work for a Computer Scientist? And more generally how biology, genetics, epigenetics, virus, etc work? Many vulgarization sources say that DNA is like the source code of life. But they mostly skim across the issue and go to conclusions like "this gene or set of genes are responsible for that outcome". But coming from a CS background that sounds a bit like non-sense. I feel li…

I read this as a kid: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cartoon-Guide-Genetics/dp/006273099... It provides a very useful bridge from a mechanistic / physic-y / computer point of view, to the more messy biochemistry. Still, whenever I think of a biochemical process, it's a cartoon from here that comes to my mind's eye.

Re: What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

#52

Post by daseiner1 »

ethbro wrote: post #37
whatshisface wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Process reproduce (through forking) metabolize (stdin->stdout) and maintain homeostasis (garbage collection). How could they not be alive?

(Morally) Because reproduction without purpose is not life. Necessary but insufficient.

what’s the purpose of an amoeba? or a mosquito? or a duck? or a chimpanzee?

Re: What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

#53

Post by jacobwilliamroy »

dimtion wrote: post #25

Is there a a good read on how RNA and DNA work for a Computer Scientist? And more generally how biology, genetics, epigenetics, virus, etc work? Many vulgarization sources say that DNA is like the source code of life. But they mostly skim across the issue and go to conclusions like "this gene or set of genes are responsible for that outcome". But coming from a CS background that sounds a bit like non-sense. I feel li…

GO TO A UNIVERSITY AND TAKE SOME CLASSES YOU RUBE

Re: What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

#54

Post by Viliam1234 »

twomoretime wrote: post #39
dimtion wrote: post #25

Is there a a good read on how RNA and DNA work for a Computer Scientist? And more generally how biology, genetics, epigenetics, virus, etc work? Many vulgarization sources say that DNA is like the source code of life. But they mostly skim across the issue and go to conclusions like "this gene or set of genes are responsible for that outcome". But coming from a CS background that sounds a bit like non-sense. I feel li…

It's like writing ultimate spaghetti code in a dynamic language. The nature of biology is much like classes and data floating around and all seemingly randomly interacting with each other, because ultimately this is just chemistry with thousands of unique compounds, which makes things messy. But through natural selection it seems to work. Like a totally incomprehensible compression algorithm learned by neural nets or…

This. Spaghetti code beyond human imagination.

Once I tried to learn this stuff by asking a biochemist, but I soon became frustrated because it seems there are no 100% rules, only "it is usually like this" all the way down.

Like, did they teach you at school that eukaryotes have two sets of chromozomes, one from each parent? Yeah, "usually". But then also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyploidy

And similarly with everything.

Re: What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

#55

Post by aaron695 »

ethbro wrote: post #37
whatshisface wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Process reproduce (through forking) metabolize (stdin->stdout) and maintain homeostasis (garbage collection). How could they not be alive?

(Morally) Because reproduction without purpose is not life. Necessary but insufficient.

If there is no purpose to forking then why is it done?

I'd go as far as to say if you kill the ability to fork, a lot of processes would go extinct and be replaced.

Re: What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

#56

Post by smaddox »

lordnacho wrote: post #30
dimtion wrote: post #25

Is there a a good read on how RNA and DNA work for a Computer Scientist? And more generally how biology, genetics, epigenetics, virus, etc work? Many vulgarization sources say that DNA is like the source code of life. But they mostly skim across the issue and go to conclusions like "this gene or set of genes are responsible for that outcome". But coming from a CS background that sounds a bit like non-sense. I feel li…

I listened to the Great Courses audiobook about Biology. There's a lot about how the machinery of the cell works, how it evolved, and so on. He goes through everything else as well, including the immune system, ecology, and so on. It all ties together. Regarding the genes and central dogma, he gives a LOT of detail about how for instance it was discovered that codons work in threes (not twos or fours). Also how it wa…

Do you have a link to it on Audible, or somewhere? There seem to be several Great Courses on Biology.

I absolutely love the series, and the one you're describing definitely sounds like one I would like to listen to.

Re: What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

#57

Post by Barrin92 »

twomoretime wrote: post #39
dimtion wrote: post #25

Is there a a good read on how RNA and DNA work for a Computer Scientist? And more generally how biology, genetics, epigenetics, virus, etc work? Many vulgarization sources say that DNA is like the source code of life. But they mostly skim across the issue and go to conclusions like "this gene or set of genes are responsible for that outcome". But coming from a CS background that sounds a bit like non-sense. I feel li…

It's like writing ultimate spaghetti code in a dynamic language. The nature of biology is much like classes and data floating around and all seemingly randomly interacting with each other, because ultimately this is just chemistry with thousands of unique compounds, which makes things messy. But through natural selection it seems to work. Like a totally incomprehensible compression algorithm learned by neural nets or…

>It's like writing ultimate spaghetti code in a dynamic language. The nature of biology is much like classes and data floating around and all seemingly randomly interacting with each other, because ultimately this is just chemistry with thousands of unique compounds, which makes things messy.

It should be noted that biological systems were one of the exlicit inspirations for extremely dynamic and object oriented languages like smalltalk.

Far from being a negative aspect the 'centerless' design and high degree of decentralization is messy, but also extremely robust.The internet as a whole is another example of a human technology that utilizes that sort of design.

Re: What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

#58

Post by tcgv »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #34
dimtion wrote: post #25

Is there a a good read on how RNA and DNA work for a Computer Scientist? And more generally how biology, genetics, epigenetics, virus, etc work? Many vulgarization sources say that DNA is like the source code of life. But they mostly skim across the issue and go to conclusions like "this gene or set of genes are responsible for that outcome". But coming from a CS background that sounds a bit like non-sense. I feel li…

I recommend Crash Course's youtube series on biology. Specifically this video about DNA and replication. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kK2zwjRV0M In very broad terms, the segments of code in DNA/RNA acutally provide a template for specific molecules and enzymes.

So, from a CS point of view, I guess instead of comparing DNA to procedurally executed machine code we should be comparing it to the source code of a set of classes, which once instantiated produces specific proteins that perform all sorts of biological tasks in our bodies.

Re: What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

#59

Post by refurb »

I always thought the "flightosome" picture was a great way that biologists can demonstrate just how complex biology is.[1]

When you see a biologist draw a system in biology, say, how a protein interacts with a cell membrane and then causes a change in expression within the nucleus, it can look relatively simple.

Well, it's about as simple as drawing how an airplane works. In this example, you have the "flightosome", which is made up of fuselage, wings, cockpit and landing gear. That's what transports passengers from one airport to another.

Simple right? Well even the landing gear component is complex and with biology, we have very little understanding of it at all.

[1]https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2017/02/01/th...

Re: What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

#60

Post by Retric »

vikramkr wrote: post #35
dimtion wrote: post #25

Is there a a good read on how RNA and DNA work for a Computer Scientist? And more generally how biology, genetics, epigenetics, virus, etc work? Many vulgarization sources say that DNA is like the source code of life. But they mostly skim across the issue and go to conclusions like "this gene or set of genes are responsible for that outcome". But coming from a CS background that sounds a bit like non-sense. I feel li…

I wouldn't recommend trying to understand it through analogy to CS - I'm a biologist and know enough CS to feel uncomfortable really using any of the usual analogies. The problem is that they work ok for a layperson understanding, but are fundamentally wrong enough that if you want to understand it at the level of something like virology you'll be lead constantly astray. I dont know of a better recommendation than "w…

It’s hard to disagree with what your saying, but analogies are fun.

I think the best analogy is DNA is a series of automated assembly lines. The workers, raw materials, and signals to turn sections on or off are separate. Each nucleotide station is called A, T, C, or G and adds a single element at a time to long chains which then get folded up into useful tools. DNA can also be used to manufacture either more stands of DNA or to do very simple repairs.

Alternatively, a stack of computer punch cards with a program on them. In that it’s a standard format for information transfer that is physically altered by the message it carries. Further, on it’s own nothing happens but connected to the right machinery it’s useful.

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