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What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

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31–40 of 202 posts

Re: What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

#31
post #25

Is there a a good read on how RNA and DNA work for a Computer Scientist? And more generally how biology, genetics, epigenetics, virus, etc work? Many vulgarization sources say that DNA is like the source code of life. But they mostly skim across the issue and go to conclusions like "this gene or set of genes are responsible for that outcome". But coming from a CS background that sounds a bit like non-sense. I feel li…

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Re: What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

#32
post #25

Is there a a good read on how RNA and DNA work for a Computer Scientist? And more generally how biology, genetics, epigenetics, virus, etc work? Many vulgarization sources say that DNA is like the source code of life. But they mostly skim across the issue and go to conclusions like "this gene or set of genes are responsible for that outcome". But coming from a CS background that sounds a bit like non-sense. I feel li…

IMHO, biology is most easily looked at as a recipe for order, from whatever ingredients happen to be laying around.

Essentially, everything is in the service of increasing order. And maintaining it.

Polymerase creates more genetic code out of raw ingredients.

Genetic code creates proteins.

Proteins perform all kinds of functions by leveraging physics and chemistry.

Membranes prevent all of this from being blown away and scattered in the chemical equivalent of a slight breeze.

... so, as you ask, 'Why genetic material in the first place?'

And to that, something of a tautology: because reproducing order reproduces.

Randomly assembled self-assembling assemblages constitute the major components of our environment, because everything else... didn't.

A rock is still one rock. Water is still water.

A blade of grass is now a meadow. A tree, a forest. A slightly intelligent primate, civilization as we know it. And a single mutated coronavirus, a pandemic in every country on the globe.

Re: What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

#33
post #5

> Is a virus a living thing? Maybe. I remember 20 year ago, at school, when the biology teacher was presenting this dilemma. Ever since, when I hear someone saying "doing this will kill the virus", it triggers my brain into this subject, since you can't kill something if it's not alive ;) Somewhat related, I also like the concept of the "Viruses of the Mind" [1], which makes an analogy between the spreading of a biol…

You can kill it in the sense that you stop it being a mutating replicator. That is pretty much the bare bones of life, an abstraction you can't get away from in defining life, but also one that encompasses things that aren't "life". It also applies to things like memes (both the original form from Dawkins and the internet form).

Re: What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

#34
post #25

Is there a a good read on how RNA and DNA work for a Computer Scientist? And more generally how biology, genetics, epigenetics, virus, etc work? Many vulgarization sources say that DNA is like the source code of life. But they mostly skim across the issue and go to conclusions like "this gene or set of genes are responsible for that outcome". But coming from a CS background that sounds a bit like non-sense. I feel li…

I recommend Crash Course's youtube series on biology. Specifically this video about DNA and replication. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kK2zwjRV0M

In very broad terms, the segments of code in DNA/RNA acutally provide a template for specific molecules and enzymes.

Re: What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

#35
post #25

Is there a a good read on how RNA and DNA work for a Computer Scientist? And more generally how biology, genetics, epigenetics, virus, etc work? Many vulgarization sources say that DNA is like the source code of life. But they mostly skim across the issue and go to conclusions like "this gene or set of genes are responsible for that outcome". But coming from a CS background that sounds a bit like non-sense. I feel li…

I wouldn't recommend trying to understand it through analogy to CS - I'm a biologist and know enough CS to feel uncomfortable really using any of the usual analogies. The problem is that they work ok for a layperson understanding, but are fundamentally wrong enough that if you want to understand it at the level of something like virology you'll be lead constantly astray. I dont know of a better recommendation than "watch some recorder bio 101 lectures or pick up a textbook, and learn it like a bio major instead of a CS major." It's a lot of time commitment, but I think you have to put in the time to actually learn it from first principles.

For context, imagine if I as a biologist asked you, what's a good read on CS for a biologist? And generally how algorithms, data science, AI, and operating systems work?

You can understand why it would be difficult to recommend any readings on it. For me to learn to code at any level, I had to spend the time learning it from the fundamentals, and it was worth spending the time for me as it was far more rewarding than trying to wrap my mind around something like "so imagine source code is this thing that's like DNA + epigenetics + dna topology that codes for the information you want, but instead of a complex set of chemical and physical interactions, it's math, and you can change it at will and nothing is leaky on purpose, and the code you write doesnt evolve unless you tell it to which you might want to do sometimes for AI stuff, but usually not."

Re: What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

#36
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can certainly deactivate things that aren't alive, though.

Is a virus active? It can be considered a toxin that a cell reacts to by creating more of the toxin.

Maybe a better term is denature, like with enzymes?

Re: What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can kill a process, or a proposal I don't see why you shouldn't be able to kill a virus -- alive or not!

Process reproduce (through forking) metabolize (stdin->stdout) and maintain homeostasis (garbage collection). How could they not be alive?

(Morally) Because reproduction without purpose is not life. Necessary but insufficient.

Re: What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

#38

> Try multiplying a billion billion billion billion by a trillion trillion trillion trillion, then multiply that by a thousand, and that (10 to the 31st power) is the mind-numbing estimate of how many individual viral particles are estimated to populate the planet. What definitions of "billion" and "trillion" are they using? 10 to the 31st would be only ten million trillion trillion, going by the common definition of…

Yeah, if you multiply "a billion billion billion billion by a trillion trillion trillion trillion, then multiply that by a thousand" you get a larger number than the atoms in the observable universe.

Re: What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

#39
post #25

Is there a a good read on how RNA and DNA work for a Computer Scientist? And more generally how biology, genetics, epigenetics, virus, etc work? Many vulgarization sources say that DNA is like the source code of life. But they mostly skim across the issue and go to conclusions like "this gene or set of genes are responsible for that outcome". But coming from a CS background that sounds a bit like non-sense. I feel li…

It's like writing ultimate spaghetti code in a dynamic language.

The nature of biology is much like classes and data floating around and all seemingly randomly interacting with each other, because ultimately this is just chemistry with thousands of unique compounds, which makes things messy.

But through natural selection it seems to work. Like a totally incomprehensible compression algorithm learned by neural nets or evolved by genetic code. There should be a source somewhere around here...

Re: What's a virus, anyway? The bare-bones basics

#40
post #5

> Is a virus a living thing? Maybe. I remember 20 year ago, at school, when the biology teacher was presenting this dilemma. Ever since, when I hear someone saying "doing this will kill the virus", it triggers my brain into this subject, since you can't kill something if it's not alive ;) Somewhat related, I also like the concept of the "Viruses of the Mind" [1], which makes an analogy between the spreading of a biol…

You can kill it in the sense that you stop it being a mutating replicator. That is pretty much the bare bones of life, an abstraction you can't get away from in defining life, but also one that encompasses things that aren't "life". It also applies to things like memes (both the original form from Dawkins and the internet form).

A virus is not a replicator. It is information and a transport system. The machinery of a living cell is the replicator.

It seems pretty simple to me: viruses are not living. They are able to co-opt living systems into making more of themselves.

A virus may gain life while it is inside of a cell, but why is that any different than the organic molecules which gain life when assembled into a cell? We don't say carbon is alive.

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