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Planning and Managing Layoffs

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Re: Planning and Managing Layoffs

#51

Post by pg_bot »

nilkn wrote: post #4

Just ruminating here, but I didn’t fully understand the hesitance to do paycuts. Of course, I understand that in some cases the financial problem is severe enough that layoffs are the only option. But it’s conceivable that in many cases a simple, say, 20% cut to salaries across the board could be enough to tip the balance. Some employees will immediately start looking for another job, but that seems totally fine and…

I can tell you've never run a company.

You're likely to lose your best employees because they know what they are worth and are unlikely to live with a pay cut because working with you is no more special than working for someone else. Losing great employees is not where you want to save money. It's extremely expensive to find, hire, and train people, and once you lose them you also lose their domain knowledge within your company.

If you lose the engineer that built the product that makes you money, good luck modifying or fixing any issues with it in a short amount of time.

Layoffs are about survival, doing what you suggest is a sure fire way to kill your company.

Re: Planning and Managing Layoffs

#52

Post by tyre »

ardit33 wrote: post #46
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #9

As someone who was lucky enough to graduate right into the last recession, I highly empathize with the class of 2020, it is going to be rough for everyone, but especially them. Over a decade later, and only recently have I felt like I was finding my footing career-wise. And now we're all in for another ride. I barely managed to land a job after graduating, made almost no money, got laid off, and the company collapsed…

Kids that Graduated in 2001-2003 feel the same.... those year sucked. I was a summer intern in 2002, and saw half of my group get laid off. As an intern I was cheap enough to keep around, until the economy improved in late 2003, when I got a full time offer.... 2004-2007 were good, then bamn another recession... then this.... The way money interests/lobbyist are running the economy and country, It is almost given tha…

To the latter criticism, this has nothing to do with governments pumping up stocks.

It’s a pandemic that could put a third of workers out of jobs because everything is shutting down and the economy is coming to a halt. It’s not like 2008 when complex financial products f—ed it all up.

(Yes there are still bad policies, yes there is corruption, yes, yes etc etc etc but the point is that this isn’t “part of the boom and bust cycle.”)

Re: Planning and Managing Layoffs

#53

Post by Judgmentality »

tyre wrote: post #52
ardit33 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids that Graduated in 2001-2003 feel the same.... those year sucked. I was a summer intern in 2002, and saw half of my group get laid off. As an intern I was cheap enough to keep around, until the economy improved in late 2003, when I got a full time offer.... 2004-2007 were good, then bamn another recession... then this.... The way money interests/lobbyist are running the economy and country, It is almost given tha…

To the latter criticism, this has nothing to do with governments pumping up stocks. It’s a pandemic that could put a third of workers out of jobs because everything is shutting down and the economy is coming to a halt. It’s not like 2008 when complex financial products f—ed it all up. (Yes there are still bad policies, yes there is corruption, yes, yes etc etc etc but the point is that this isn’t “part of the boom an…

You have valid points, but the boom and bust just exacerbates an already bad situation by compounding the natural disaster with a market primed to fall already. So it took a bad situation, and made it even worse.

As to all how this is going to play out, who knows? I'm not as optimistic as others that it's just going to be a couple months and suddenly everything is back to normal.

Re: Planning and Managing Layoffs

#55

Post by davidu »

GCA10 wrote: post #45

Most of this is good advice, but I'd disagree with declaring "Today is your last day." I've been on both sides of the layoff conversation, and usually there are some loose ends relating to work-in-progress that can be tidied up with dignity if everyone has a couple days to do it. We're talking about reworking next week's client meeting, or sorting out some team/project responsibilities that ought to be handed off cle…

Yep. I’m not sure you read the whole thing, as I cover the grandma birthday example. Sentiment-wise we agree, tactically it’s still not the best practice. I know it sounds like it is.

It really depends on the maturity of the workforce and leadership, as I mention. For a lot of startups, that’s in short supply and just saying today is the last day of work is easiest. It shouldn’t have the feeling tossing them out. It can be end of day, folks (not boss) can arrange a meet up at a bar nearby, etc. I’ve seen it go sideways on both sides before when it’s too ambiguous for people or drawn way out, especially for junior folks in IC roles. The right thing really is just let them go, pay them as much as you can, and let them start figuring out what’s next.

If it were me, chances are I would not make the day of notification their last day unless they wanted it to be (most would I bet) but I also know what I’m doing. :-)

Re: Planning and Managing Layoffs

#56

Post by FURLOD-19 »

RHSeeger wrote: post #43
taurath wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even a 2% pay cut is basically a big “the company doesn’t value you anymore, best move along.” signal. They can say it’s about cutting costs all they want but you’re the one being asked to take the hit not the company worth millions or billions.

I don't agree with this at all. It's entirely possible for a company to have pay cuts because they're looking to save as many jobs as possible; because they believe that it's better for _everyone_ to make less than _some_ to make nothing.

what about when there are pay cuts, furloughs and layoffs? My org did this. Pay cuts in tiers depending on salary level, layoffs and furloughs announced in the same announcement.

I asked payroll if our final check would be affected by the pay cuts and am still waiting an answer.

Re: Planning and Managing Layoffs

#57

Post by whatever1 »

These posts bring me to the realization that you should never go above and beyond for a company that you don’t own. Just show up, do the bare minimum to meet expectations, finish your 8 hour shift and go home and enjoy quality time with your family. This way when you get laid-off there is nothing to cry for. You can always find an occupation, but you cannot get back the time that you dedicated to fulfill someone else’s dreams.

Re: Planning and Managing Layoffs

#58

Post by hirako2000 »

perceptronas wrote: post #50
toadi wrote: post #41

Seems odd... To be honest I'm from Belgium and like how layoffs are handled in my country. There is a rulebook with actual legislation behind it. I like that because it is easy to know for both parties what the expectations are. Mostly you know exactly your severance pay as there are fixed rules for that in your contract. If there are mass layoffs it will trigger other rules. Can't understand the American Freedom thi…

Expectations are handled when you sign employment contract. You are free to negotiate anything. I live in EU country with similar laws and still employees/employers negotiate additional things which are are not written in the contract (because law forbids it). American freedom - its hard to imagine somebody complaining because the person has more individual choices

While I agree in principle and wish more freedom in Europe, actually even more freedom in the US as well, it's in practice that it fails, especially in certain countries, and always in defavor of the workers.

When the capital holders manage to unbalance the relationship with the workers, after failing to rebalance it, politics come into play and rules get voted to protect the workers from certain abuse. I wouldn't say it works well but it limits certain practices that would put the workers in serious troubles.

In certain places, we've seen workers working over 60h per week, and not getting compensated enough to meet the ends. So you may say those workers should educate themselves and negociate better, but again it doesn't always work in practice.

Re: Planning and Managing Layoffs

#59

Post by lukevdp »

whatever1 wrote: post #57

These posts bring me to the realization that you should never go above and beyond for a company that you don’t own. Just show up, do the bare minimum to meet expectations, finish your 8 hour shift and go home and enjoy quality time with your family. This way when you get laid-off there is nothing to cry for. You can always find an occupation, but you cannot get back the time that you dedicated to fulfill someone else…

At the end of the week, you get paid, and you and the company are even.

Re: Planning and Managing Layoffs

#60

Post by [deleted] »

lukevdp wrote: post #59
whatever1 wrote: post #57

These posts bring me to the realization that you should never go above and beyond for a company that you don’t own. Just show up, do the bare minimum to meet expectations, finish your 8 hour shift and go home and enjoy quality time with your family. This way when you get laid-off there is nothing to cry for. You can always find an occupation, but you cannot get back the time that you dedicated to fulfill someone else…

At the end of the week, you get paid, and you and the company are even.

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