Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Planning and Managing Layoffs

a16z.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 165 posts

Re: Planning and Managing Layoffs

#41

Post by toadi »

Seems odd... To be honest I'm from Belgium and like how layoffs are handled in my country. There is a rulebook with actual legislation behind it. I like that because it is easy to know for both parties what the expectations are. Mostly you know exactly your severance pay as there are fixed rules for that in your contract. If there are mass layoffs it will trigger other rules.

Can't understand the American Freedom thing. So the freedon to chose to be an asshole employer is actually an option there :D

Re: Planning and Managing Layoffs

#42

Post by divbzero »

acwan93 wrote: post #31
gk1 wrote: post #16

One more thing to consider as you plan the layoffs: You may be eligible for one (or more) of the loans from the latest relief bill. The loans come with a near-zero interest rate and a big chunk of it may be forgiven.[1] However, there are stipulations related to layoffs and reduced salaries, which is why you should evaluate this option before making the irreversible decision to fire people. [1] Here's a decent summar…

We were considering laying off but quickly decided on pay cuts due to (what currently seems like!) the temporary nature of this and knowing that the relief bill will come. Our projection is that the loan funds should arrive by the pay cycle after our upcoming one. Like the article and the parent comment mentions, laying off is a very significant and irreversible decision and at least in our case seemed too extreme.

This is exactly what the relief bill is aiming to accomplish: to bridge otherwise healthy businesses to the other side of the crisis without having to dismantle their teams now and painstakingly rebuild them afterwards. Hopefully many companies like yours can make this plan work out in reality.

Re: Planning and Managing Layoffs

#43

Post by RHSeeger »

taurath wrote: post #14
nilkn wrote: post #4

Just ruminating here, but I didn’t fully understand the hesitance to do paycuts. Of course, I understand that in some cases the financial problem is severe enough that layoffs are the only option. But it’s conceivable that in many cases a simple, say, 20% cut to salaries across the board could be enough to tip the balance. Some employees will immediately start looking for another job, but that seems totally fine and…

Even a 2% pay cut is basically a big “the company doesn’t value you anymore, best move along.” signal. They can say it’s about cutting costs all they want but you’re the one being asked to take the hit not the company worth millions or billions.

I don't agree with this at all. It's entirely possible for a company to have pay cuts because they're looking to save as many jobs as possible; because they believe that it's better for _everyone_ to make less than _some_ to make nothing.

Re: Planning and Managing Layoffs

#44

Post by Judgmentality »

jbkiv wrote: post #30

Different point of view: I was a Founder and CEO during the dot com era. The company survived and became successful ($2B revenues today). It may be unpopular, but I will give you a different view, the one from a Founder/CEO. After the dot com crash no VC could figure out the good from the bad in their portfolio companies. I was starting to get conflicting opinions from my board (4 VC’s and me, the Founder). “Become a…

> The night before I did not sleep. I was up at 5 and drove early to the office. I stopped multiple times as I was sobbing and could not drive (I wear glasses).

> As I was reading to talk, I started crying. Everybody was watching me in silence.

I know my comment is slightly off-topic to the article, but I just wanted to empathize with you and what was the worst day of your life. My company failed completely, but when I had to make the announcement I was sobbing uncontrollably to the point where I was having trouble breathing, in front of everyone (some were sympathetic, some were bitter, all went on to better things almost immediately - none had any interest in working for free). It's just fucking awful. I'm doing better now, but fuck just remembering how horrible that was made me feel compelled to write this comment.

> As for me, I never fully recovered from the worst day of my life, and that was 19 years ago. :-(

I hope you're also doing better today.

Re: Planning and Managing Layoffs

#45

Post by GCA10 »

Most of this is good advice, but I'd disagree with declaring "Today is your last day."

I've been on both sides of the layoff conversation, and usually there are some loose ends relating to work-in-progress that can be tidied up with dignity if everyone has a couple days to do it. We're talking about reworking next week's client meeting, or sorting out some team/project responsibilities that ought to be handed off cleanly, or whatever.

Assuming that there's trust in both directions, too, it's decent to give laid-off employees a couple days to retrieve or delete personal information that's relevant to their life going forward. A work emailed picture of grandma's birthday party. That sort of thing.

The person you lay off today is likely to stay in the industry, and to mingle in the future with people that might be important to your future success. Take a moment to think how you want to manage that relationship. Tossing her/him out the door that day is one approach. But it carries a price.

A favorite example from finance. The guys who founded Kohlberg Kravis Roberts were thrown out of Bear Stearns quite summarily in 1976. They built quite a mighty firm in KKR and did not do a penny of business with Bear Stearns for many years.

KKR is still around and doing fine. Bear Stearns went bust in 2008. That single example isn't cause and effect. But it's a marker.

Re: Planning and Managing Layoffs

#46

Post by ardit33 »

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #9

As someone who was lucky enough to graduate right into the last recession, I highly empathize with the class of 2020, it is going to be rough for everyone, but especially them. Over a decade later, and only recently have I felt like I was finding my footing career-wise. And now we're all in for another ride. I barely managed to land a job after graduating, made almost no money, got laid off, and the company collapsed…

Kids that Graduated in 2001-2003 feel the same.... those year sucked. I was a summer intern in 2002, and saw half of my group get laid off. As an intern I was cheap enough to keep around, until the economy improved in late 2003, when I got a full time offer....

2004-2007 were good, then bamn another recession... then this....

The way money interests/lobbyist are running the economy and country, It is almost given that every 10 years there will be a major recession. While this time it was a virus triggering it, the economy has been over-heated for a while, and the crazy thing is that the government was running crazy deficits in a hot economy, instead of saving for the long term. (i.e. the feds and the goverment, have been 'juicing up' the economy for short term re-election goals).

Re: Planning and Managing Layoffs

#47

Post by gumby »

toadi wrote: post #41

Seems odd... To be honest I'm from Belgium and like how layoffs are handled in my country. There is a rulebook with actual legislation behind it. I like that because it is easy to know for both parties what the expectations are. Mostly you know exactly your severance pay as there are fixed rules for that in your contract. If there are mass layoffs it will trigger other rules. Can't understand the American Freedom thi…

Similar rules apply in the US for larger companies but not small ones.

Re: Planning and Managing Layoffs

#48

Post by [deleted] »

toadi wrote: post #41

Seems odd... To be honest I'm from Belgium and like how layoffs are handled in my country. There is a rulebook with actual legislation behind it. I like that because it is easy to know for both parties what the expectations are. Mostly you know exactly your severance pay as there are fixed rules for that in your contract. If there are mass layoffs it will trigger other rules. Can't understand the American Freedom thi…

[deleted]

Re: Planning and Managing Layoffs

#49

Post by _delirium »

GCA10 wrote: post #45

Most of this is good advice, but I'd disagree with declaring "Today is your last day." I've been on both sides of the layoff conversation, and usually there are some loose ends relating to work-in-progress that can be tidied up with dignity if everyone has a couple days to do it. We're talking about reworking next week's client meeting, or sorting out some team/project responsibilities that ought to be handed off cle…

Your suggestion also fits better with the social norm that employees should give two weeks notice if they want to leave on good terms. Neither side is required to give any notice in the US in most cases, but both employers and employees usually prefer if the other side offers a small time window to wrap up loose ends.

Re: Planning and Managing Layoffs

#50

Post by perceptronas »

toadi wrote: post #41

Seems odd... To be honest I'm from Belgium and like how layoffs are handled in my country. There is a rulebook with actual legislation behind it. I like that because it is easy to know for both parties what the expectations are. Mostly you know exactly your severance pay as there are fixed rules for that in your contract. If there are mass layoffs it will trigger other rules. Can't understand the American Freedom thi…

Expectations are handled when you sign employment contract. You are free to negotiate anything. I live in EU country with similar laws and still employees/employers negotiate additional things which are are not written in the contract (because law forbids it). American freedom - its hard to imagine somebody complaining because the person has more individual choices
Post reply on HN