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The Unreal Engine Wiki is now permanently offline

forums.unrealengine.com

31–40 of 137 posts

Re: The Unreal Engine Wiki is now permanently offline

#31

> So why can’t we put a read-only archive online currently? > The Wiki, even in it’s read-only state, was presenting security risks, and it was deemed necessary to take it offline. https://forums.unrealengine.com/unreal-engine/announcements-...

Seems like a poor excuse. You can make a read-only version of a Wiki without running wiki software. Just mirror the HTML.

At the very least they could have made this open source

Re: The Unreal Engine Wiki is now permanently offline

#32

Unity is in a comfortable position with newer lines of business from VR, architecture, and animation along with its strong position on the long tail of desktop, console, and mobile gaming. They have the marketplace to beat and a userbase beyond comparison. I believe this enables Google-esq behavior and its disconcerting at best. My son was really into Unity development for a while, but he got discouraged when they de…

Unity or Unreal?

They're talking about both at different points..?

Re: The Unreal Engine Wiki is now permanently offline

#33
post #6

Since I started using Ogre3D I always had a hard time settling down to feature rich engines like unreal or unity. I don't know how often, giving beginners access to a space shuttle, will it lead to a successful project that can compete with non-indie game developers. There is also a fine line between an indie team of developers who can benefit from those tools, and experienced game developers who would not need them.…

What engines are you suggesting make it easier to create those games that compete? My experience is that UE4 and Unity are both enabling of indie developers to make very high quality games. The only real limitations are how much effort you put into the art. UE4, while hard to code for, is still orders of magnitude less work than coding all the rendering, animation, and hardware logic from scratch. There are of course…

It doesn't provide everything that those engines have but Urho3d is a very solid engine that has been under development for many years.

https://urho3d.github.io/

Someone else already mentioned Godot, which I think is fantastic and a lot of fun for making 2d games. I have not tried to use it for 3d, I understand its new renderer is making it more competitive with more advanced engines.

edit: btw, I don't really agree with anything GP said. I just wanted to plug these two nice open source alternatives. I personally (as a casual hobbyist) did not really mesh with Unity or Unreal, for different reasons but I definitely understand what they offer to both beginners and serious businesses.

Re: The Unreal Engine Wiki is now permanently offline

#34

Unity is in a comfortable position with newer lines of business from VR, architecture, and animation along with its strong position on the long tail of desktop, console, and mobile gaming. They have the marketplace to beat and a userbase beyond comparison. I believe this enables Google-esq behavior and its disconcerting at best. My son was really into Unity development for a while, but he got discouraged when they de…

Have you read the link?

Re: The Unreal Engine Wiki is now permanently offline

#39
post #6

Since I started using Ogre3D I always had a hard time settling down to feature rich engines like unreal or unity. I don't know how often, giving beginners access to a space shuttle, will it lead to a successful project that can compete with non-indie game developers. There is also a fine line between an indie team of developers who can benefit from those tools, and experienced game developers who would not need them.…

I think you're discounting the value of the tools Unity and UE offer to experienced developers/teams, and ignoring that outside a few exceptions, Indies haven't really been able to compete with AAA Devs since the PS2 era, when games more or less got programmed from scratch, or were adapted from the brittle code of previous titles.

Nearly every major studio or publisher has a similar toolset they've either built from scratch (RED Engine, Frostbite, Anvil, Decima, Id Tech, etc.) or license (like Unreal) and built on top of. Years of testing, R&D, and workflow refinement goes into making these toolchains extensible and useful for teams of all skill levels and functions, as well as to make them scale well to the needs of different titles.

The trade-off with these tools, is that their tremendous breadth can make working with them on complex projects their own knowledge domain for smaller teams, even as it abstracts away many of the complexities that come with developing your own engine.

If you're an engineering oriented developer who has the luxury of developing for a very restricted set of platforms and the time to debug their own tooling, with narrow, well-defined graphical requirements, a clear vision, and a technically inclined art team, then using a framework like Ogre makes perfect sense. Lightweight frameworks are a joy to work with, and you only have to add what you need on top of them to get the job done.

But iteration is slower, and you may spend months getting your tooling where it needs to be if you're going to work with a team.

Good luck onboarding new artists and game designers though. First you have to worry about training. After that, compatibility. Artists tend to have a workflow that works best for them, and even using open file formats, and established toolchains, they've got a gift for finding edge cases in your system. Your map editing toolchain also has to work for both the artists, and the designers.

Conversely, a mature engine like UE, or Unity has a wealth of crowdsourced documentation, and it's almost impossible to trip over an issue that someone else hasn't already triaged before you. New team members are almost guaranteed to know how to fulfill their responsibilities within the constraints of the engine's toolset, so they can get to iterating on prototypes much faster.

They're also typically extensible enough that the engineering guy(s) can put whatever efforts they would have contributed to designing a rendering engine, tools, and debugging platform issues into adding features unique to their title.

The featureset on these behemoths may be overwhelming, but it's more or less on par with what the 'pros' are using, so just by adopting one, you're virtually eliminating your technical capability gap with them. There is still a gap. With respect to tooling, Indies simply lack access and experience with parametric modelling tools like Houdini which greatly increase the efficiency of content-generation.

The rest of that gap can be broken down to experience, and manpower. Experience can be fixed, but few indies are able to throw the number of bodies at a project that someone like EA or UbiSoft can.

Engines allow anyone to make AAA level experiences with AAA levels of graphical fidelity now.

The output gap has become about art and content, something no indie can effectively compete with in terms of volume.

I agree that developing on large engines can cause you to hit a wall, and the engine essentially becomes the developer's world, but I think overall the proportion of people in the world who go further is the same, even if the proportion of people in the world cluelessly noodling with the low-cost space shuttle they've been given, and putting out garbage increases.

People incapable of competing have been allowed to join the market. But the democratization of engines has also given those with the potential to be great a much lower barrier of entry onto the development scene

Re: The Unreal Engine Wiki is now permanently offline

#40

Unity is in a comfortable position with newer lines of business from VR, architecture, and animation along with its strong position on the long tail of desktop, console, and mobile gaming. They have the marketplace to beat and a userbase beyond comparison. I believe this enables Google-esq behavior and its disconcerting at best. My son was really into Unity development for a while, but he got discouraged when they de…

> they deprecated their entire networking stack without providing a suitable replacement

It was their second networking stack already, and both have had been ridden with problems. Last stack's still open sourced on BitBucket, and you can choose it as a starting point for your networking stack,.

Some promises, like what Unity networking was trying to achieve - a hassle-free real-time game mulitplayer without dedicated servers - are just not achievable, and your customers are better off if you admit it. It's much worse when you buy into marketing hype and start discovering structural problems that require total rewrite close to the release.

I worked with Unity since 2009, and in 2017/2018 implemented a custom multiplayer solution for an open-world RPG game without a dedicated server. Which was originally written on that exact stack. Never had a worse burnout in my life.

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