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Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

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Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#231

Post by eythian »

yesenadam wrote: post #204
peter_d_sherman wrote: post #199

Warning: Really corny humor ahead... So it could be said that the Van Gogh... Van Went... away...

I take it from that that you pronounce "Gogh" like "go". A Dutchman once explained to me that both g's are pronounced with a strongly guttural h sound, like in loch or Bach , or like the Spanish j but much stronger, like you're clearing your throat. And a short "o", like non-USA English "top" - not an "ah" sound. CHhhoChhh . Yes, pretty impossible for English-speakers, but anything would be closer than rhyming it wit…

Basically, it rhymes with "cock" , except the 'k' sounds at the start and end are choking sounds from your throat, like that in loch.

Depending on your English dialect, people tend to take the gh either from though making it "van go", or the gh from cough, making it "van gof".

Now, for extra points, try the local liquor chain "Gall & Gall" :)

(Not a native Dutch speaker, just lived here for a few years now and spent quite some time trying to get my head and throat around the g sound.)

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#232

Post by krageon »

hash872 wrote: post #13

What is the end goal for the thieves? Seeing as you obviously can't sell stolen artwork on the open market- how many insanely wealthy private collectors can there be out there, who are willing to risk substantial prison time to own a stolen painting? I think many or most people who have that much money probably made it legally and don't have that kind of risk tolerance. And I doubt many mob boss/Tony Soprano types re…

> I think many or most people who have that much money probably made it legally

You're already becoming so technical(ly true) here that it should be obvious that the people you're speaking of are functionally amoral. Once you approach a certain wealth ceiling, the chances that you're caught in any real way approach zero.

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#233

Post by krageon »

umvi wrote: post #160
jedimastert wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think art is? It's all in the head. Otherwise it's just paint on a canvas. It's not like there's some sort of objective truth to it.

There are many reasons people like art, but I think the principle reason is (or should be) admiration of skill. It's the same reason we like watching great athletes or musicians - we can recognize the amount of time and talent required to produce the end result ("wow, I couldn't do that, even if I tried!"). It's also the same reason many people have a visceral negative reaction to "art" that seemingly requires little…

It's great that you have this view of art, but really figuring out a single principal reason is not something you're going to succeed at because people are different. Evidently even more different than you expected.

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#234

Post by JoeAltmaier »

iandanforth wrote: post #127

I fully approve of art theft. There should be honor among thieves of course. You shouldn't damage art. But if a painting isn't stolen now and then, well it wasn't worth painting in the first place. Really, what is art for but to enliven the doldrums of the rich? A moment or three of aesthetic pleasure, bragging at parties, but really most days it's just so much wallpaper. No, the true purpose of art is to be stolen.…

Or it molds away in a damp basement. Stolen art is usually damaged. There is no honor among thieves.

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#235

Post by umvi »

krageon wrote: post #233
umvi wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many reasons people like art, but I think the principle reason is (or should be) admiration of skill. It's the same reason we like watching great athletes or musicians - we can recognize the amount of time and talent required to produce the end result ("wow, I couldn't do that, even if I tried!"). It's also the same reason many people have a visceral negative reaction to "art" that seemingly requires little…

It's great that you have this view of art, but really figuring out a single principal reason is not something you're going to succeed at because people are different . Evidently even more different than you expected.

People are different, yes, but also, people are the same. If you polled 1000 people about their views on art, I would wager >50% of them hold my view.

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#236

Post by detritus »

devindotcom wrote: post #77
hash872 wrote: post #13

What is the end goal for the thieves? Seeing as you obviously can't sell stolen artwork on the open market- how many insanely wealthy private collectors can there be out there, who are willing to risk substantial prison time to own a stolen painting? I think many or most people who have that much money probably made it legally and don't have that kind of risk tolerance. And I doubt many mob boss/Tony Soprano types re…

Interestingly as I understand it part of the point is that by stealing the original you are able to create both better counterfeits and a market for them. Think about it — obviously no one will buy a counterfeit "Starry Night" or whatever if it's hanging in a museum. But if it's stolen, all of a sudden there's the possibility that they can buy the original. Not only that, but the counterfeit, created with extensive a…

Thank you for posting this - I'd had pretty much the exact thought about creating a market for multiple copies earlier today when I first saw this story, and presumed (in my typically arrogant and self-regarding human fashion) that I'd had a somewhat novel thought.

Of course I hadn't! :)

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#237

Post by viklove »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #200
viklove wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like you took my statement "the modern global economy allows it," and inferred that I meant every system other than the modern one does not allow it. Of course not. Of course there are many systems that existed in the past that also allowed for gross levels of wealth disparity, but did I ever claim otherwise? > massive leveling up of standards of living For who? Impoverished workers in China and India? How have…

Bezos doesn’t even have $100B, so the premise of your argument is nonsense. Owning shares of something isn’t the same as liquid cash. And valuing 1 share at the most recent market closing price the same as a founder liquidating their whole investment is also nonsense. FYI, all those worlds richest lists are clickbait.

> Bezos doesn’t even have $100B, so the premise of your argument is nonsense.

Oh, so that's how you're going to handwave this argument today. Got it, I wouldn't have bothered writing all of that up if I knew you were just going to stick your head in the sand.

Here's what happens when your boy Bezos gets too much power:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-30/amazon-wo...

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5dmeka/whole-foods-employ...

There need to be more checks and balances on individuals who possess this much power, or they need not be allowed to attain so much power in the first place. Your technicalities do nothing to fix this problem which affect tens of thousands of workers in this country, who are being forced to expose themselves to a deadly virus (or go hungry) so Bezos can buy another mansion and bang some more models. But I don't care that much, I suppose. If it isn't done democratically it won't be long before heads are rolling.

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#238

Post by viklove »

jcranmer wrote: post #172
viklove wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When your net worth is in the hundreds of billions, you can spend a couple hundred million to impress your "friends," and many billionaires do. Yeah, it's disgusting, but that's only because the modern global economy allows such disgusting levels of wealth.

The number of people with net worth in the hundreds of billion right now is... 1. The second-richest person is Bill Gates, at only $96.5 billion. By #10, we're at $50 billion. Fewer than 200 people are worth $10 billion. Granted, this only includes people with known net worths, but by the time you're hitting tens of billions, it's hard to hide that much wealth.

It really makes a huge impact on this conversation to say "billions" and "2.5M" and "200k," so thanks for pointing all of this stuff out. Leave it to HN to get buried in a pedantic technicality that has no effect on the points being made.
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