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Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

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Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#51

Post by w-m »

Someone wrote: post #34
w-m wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The muted greenish brown colouring, the strange wide aspect ratio, the generally dark tone and setting: if you'd try to sell this to me as a Van Gogh painting, I would have probably laughed at you. I'm far from being an art historian, but it looks quite out of character for a Van Gogh.

He wasn’t born painting sunflowers. If you look at http://art-vangogh.com/1885.html , there a lot of dark portraits (also, if I’m counting correctly, 140 paintings in a single year)

I'd make the same point for these - if you showed them to anybody on the street and asked them to name the artist, I don't think many would guess Van Gogh. They are quite different from the works he's known for.

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#53

Post by umvi »

ModernMech wrote: post #23
tartoran wrote: post #10

I'm surprised that, at this point, there are still originals in museums, especially for very desirable works as some replicas are hard to tell apart from the original. It can be done. If they hire professional 'replicators', this type of museum theft could be completely eradicated. Another possibility is that maybe in this case a replica was stolen and the museum doesn't want to divulge that. And want to add that thi…

One of the draws of going to a museum is to see the originals. If you know it's a fake then it takes away from the mystique.

> If you know it's a fake then it takes away from the mystique.

On the other hand, if you can only tell the difference between the real and the fake with a microscope, then "mystique" seems to be a simple placebo effect.

It's about time we stopped holding original-yet-mediocre works like the Mona Lisa on such a high pedestal just to create some kind of "mental high" that people are deriving from the placebo effect.

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#54

Post by grey-area »

w-m wrote: post #44
grey-area wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of his most famous paintings matches 2 out of 3 of your criticisms, he only went wild with colour later. I agree the style change can seem abrupt but it happened over years. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Potato_Eaters

If you put "Van Gogh painting" in Google images, you have to scroll quite a bit to find anything in a similar style, except for a couple hits from current news pieces.

This is one of his best known early works, it is in no way obscure, neither is his change in style.

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#55

Post by hannob »

mulmen wrote: post #29
hash872 wrote: post #13

What is the end goal for the thieves? Seeing as you obviously can't sell stolen artwork on the open market- how many insanely wealthy private collectors can there be out there, who are willing to risk substantial prison time to own a stolen painting? I think many or most people who have that much money probably made it legally and don't have that kind of risk tolerance. And I doubt many mob boss/Tony Soprano types re…

Apparently they can be used as collateral between criminals for loans. They can also be used as an insurance policy if the criminal is ever caught. Offer to exchange the art for a lesser sentence. A literal get out of jail free card.

> Offer to exchange the art for a lesser sentence. A literal get out of jail free card.

Has that ever happened? I'd assume this would be super controversial.

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#56

Post by bogomipz »

mulmen wrote: post #29
hash872 wrote: post #13

What is the end goal for the thieves? Seeing as you obviously can't sell stolen artwork on the open market- how many insanely wealthy private collectors can there be out there, who are willing to risk substantial prison time to own a stolen painting? I think many or most people who have that much money probably made it legally and don't have that kind of risk tolerance. And I doubt many mob boss/Tony Soprano types re…

Apparently they can be used as collateral between criminals for loans. They can also be used as an insurance policy if the criminal is ever caught. Offer to exchange the art for a lesser sentence. A literal get out of jail free card.

This was the certainly the case in the Gardner Museum heist in Boston in the 90s:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabella_Stewart_Gardner_Museu...

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/gardner-heist-suspect-rele...

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#57

Post by root_axis »

hash872 wrote: post #13

What is the end goal for the thieves? Seeing as you obviously can't sell stolen artwork on the open market- how many insanely wealthy private collectors can there be out there, who are willing to risk substantial prison time to own a stolen painting? I think many or most people who have that much money probably made it legally and don't have that kind of risk tolerance. And I doubt many mob boss/Tony Soprano types re…

Prison time isn't generally a risk for someone with enough wealth and connections to even catch wind of the offer to purchase a stolen Van Gogh painting.

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#58

Post by saas_sam »

sparrc wrote: post #40
hash872 wrote: post #13

What is the end goal for the thieves? Seeing as you obviously can't sell stolen artwork on the open market- how many insanely wealthy private collectors can there be out there, who are willing to risk substantial prison time to own a stolen painting? I think many or most people who have that much money probably made it legally and don't have that kind of risk tolerance. And I doubt many mob boss/Tony Soprano types re…

If you don't think there are loads of shady rich people in the world, you need to wake up.

There are loads of shady poor people. Those of us in cities see them daily. Makes sense that there would be shady rich people, too.

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#59

Post by randyrand »

hash872 wrote: post #13

What is the end goal for the thieves? Seeing as you obviously can't sell stolen artwork on the open market- how many insanely wealthy private collectors can there be out there, who are willing to risk substantial prison time to own a stolen painting? I think many or most people who have that much money probably made it legally and don't have that kind of risk tolerance. And I doubt many mob boss/Tony Soprano types re…

Easy - sell for cash to drug cartels.

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#60

Post by matthewmcg »

gorgoiler wrote: post #16
hash872 wrote: post #13

What is the end goal for the thieves? Seeing as you obviously can't sell stolen artwork on the open market- how many insanely wealthy private collectors can there be out there, who are willing to risk substantial prison time to own a stolen painting? I think many or most people who have that much money probably made it legally and don't have that kind of risk tolerance. And I doubt many mob boss/Tony Soprano types re…

Perhaps it was stolen to order? Essentially the market would be ready-made for the thieves.

“Your Postmate is picking up your order from RIJKSMUSEUM. It should be ready for delivery on: the next quiet, moonless night.”
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