Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid • Hacker News Board

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#41

Post by colechristensen » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 5:48 PM UTC

LeonM wrote: post #11

The value (in terms of money) of art has always been confusing to me. Art has monetary value because: 1 it is a famous, one-of-a-kind piece 2 it can be used for money laundering and/or illegal transactions Pieces in museums are always in the #1 category. Any other piece with high monetary value is clearly in the #2 category. This stolen van Gogh will probably end up in a private collection, but really, what's the poi…

When you have "enough" money you run out of things to purchase and start doing things for prestige among your social circle. For the right people I'm sure having a stolen van Gogh would increase that prestige.

The high end art community is about showing off and various scams with money (money laundering, loans, tax evasion, bribery, etc.) Pretty toxic stuff, but "I have so much money I don't know what to do with it all" is real and finds solutions.

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#42

Post by bmistree » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 5:48 PM UTC

hash872 wrote: post #13

What is the end goal for the thieves? Seeing as you obviously can't sell stolen artwork on the open market- how many insanely wealthy private collectors can there be out there, who are willing to risk substantial prison time to own a stolen painting? I think many or most people who have that much money probably made it legally and don't have that kind of risk tolerance. And I doubt many mob boss/Tony Soprano types re…

Let me preface this by stating that I don't actually have any special knowledge of the art or criminal world beyond what I've seen in the movies, so the following is pure speculation.

I could imagine that if a thief's motive were purely financial, he/she could ransom the painting. "This is a priceless piece of world heritage that is heavily insured. Send XXX BTC to this wallet or I'll burn up the painting and send you its ashes."

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#43

Post by crazygringo » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

hash872 wrote: post #13

What is the end goal for the thieves? Seeing as you obviously can't sell stolen artwork on the open market- how many insanely wealthy private collectors can there be out there, who are willing to risk substantial prison time to own a stolen painting? I think many or most people who have that much money probably made it legally and don't have that kind of risk tolerance. And I doubt many mob boss/Tony Soprano types re…

From what I've read it's stolen to order.

Super rich person really wants that particular painting to hang in a private room where they can enjoy it.

And they go through a couple connections for plausible deniability -- buying it from some kind of "dealer" they can "assume" is "legit", and the "dealer" then connects with actual criminals to steal it.

If ever caught (unlikely), the thieves and "dealer" take the fall, not the rich person. Also the rich person may be halfway around the world in a country where there's literally zero chance of being caught/extradited.

But the thieves and dealer are going to make a helluva lot of money, obviously, for the risk they're taking.

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#44

Post by w-m » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

grey-area wrote: post #38

w-m wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The muted greenish brown colouring, the strange wide aspect ratio, the generally dark tone and setting: if you'd try to sell this to me as a Van Gogh painting, I would have probably laughed at you. I'm far from being an art historian, but it looks quite out of character for a Van Gogh.

One of his most famous paintings matches 2 out of 3 of your criticisms, he only went wild with colour later. I agree the style change can seem abrupt but it happened over years. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Potato_Eaters

If you put "Van Gogh painting" in Google images, you have to scroll quite a bit to find anything in a similar style, except for a couple hits from current news pieces.

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#45

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

markstos wrote: post #37

bpodgursky wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can get the goods to the Middle East (Qatar, UAE, Bahrain) I assure you there are filthy rich princes and sheikhs who (1) want to give the impression of a respect for fine art, and (2) are at absolutely no risk of prosecution, and (3) would drop the money just for fun / social posturing, not even as an investment.

You have examples of other stolen art they possess?

[deleted]

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#46

Post by thdrdt » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

hash872 wrote: post #13

What is the end goal for the thieves? Seeing as you obviously can't sell stolen artwork on the open market- how many insanely wealthy private collectors can there be out there, who are willing to risk substantial prison time to own a stolen painting? I think many or most people who have that much money probably made it legally and don't have that kind of risk tolerance. And I doubt many mob boss/Tony Soprano types re…

Michel Van Rijn was a 'famous' Dutch art smuggler. He explained that a lot of art was ordered. The extreme wealthy of the underground just buy it because they want it.

A Vice article about him: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ex5qj4/how-i-became-one-o...

Edit: the Vice article doesn't mention the thefts and looting. There are other sources for this. It is also unclear if he really is a former smuggler.

Edit 2: The other reason is it's relatively easy to steal art. And most thieves focus on that part. The selling part is difficult and is also why a lot of stolen art is later recovered.

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#47

Post by dang » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

nickthegreek wrote: post #3

Photo of the artwork is missing from apnews. You can find one here - https://news.artnet.com/art-world/thieves-stolen-van-gogh-ma...

That looks like it might be a marginally better article, too, so we've changed to it above, from https://apnews.com/e635b833e60dfcb01351752976d818df. Thanks!

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#48

Post by oneplane » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

op03 wrote: post #6

maallooc wrote: post #2

What's with European museums and robbers? I've rarely or never heard Asian or American museums get robbed.

Europeans have a long track record of looting priceless things. Before it used to be from other countries.

Once upon a time the Europeans even looted an entire continent and murdered many of the people that already lived there, named it America and said it was theirs now and went on to live there.

Or was that not what you were after?

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#49

Post by neonate » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

w-m wrote: post #14

nickthegreek wrote: post #3

Photo of the artwork is missing from apnews. You can find one here - https://news.artnet.com/art-world/thieves-stolen-van-gogh-ma...

The muted greenish brown colouring, the strange wide aspect ratio, the generally dark tone and setting: if you'd try to sell this to me as a Van Gogh painting, I would have probably laughed at you. I'm far from being an art historian, but it looks quite out of character for a Van Gogh.

He changed dramatically when he moved to France. Almost a psychedelic level of change.

Re: Dutch museum says van Gogh painting stolen in overnight raid

#50

Post by gherkinnn » Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

w-m wrote: post #14

nickthegreek wrote: post #3

Photo of the artwork is missing from apnews. You can find one here - https://news.artnet.com/art-world/thieves-stolen-van-gogh-ma...

The muted greenish brown colouring, the strange wide aspect ratio, the generally dark tone and setting: if you'd try to sell this to me as a Van Gogh painting, I would have probably laughed at you. I'm far from being an art historian, but it looks quite out of character for a Van Gogh.

Van Gogh’s early work was mainly held in brown.

It was only after moving to France that he developed his iconic style.