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For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

theguardian.com

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Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#111

Post by wolco »

Zenst wrote: post #29
wolco wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, lets see. You could go the opposite way. Advertise for them everywhere. Put up signs for cheap stuff in other turfs. Let the free market work. Now is the problem the people below or where you live? Getting rid of thek might bring someone worse. Sounds like you have grown out of the area.

You know what, I cna garantee if I did that, I would be the one arrested and in jail and they would get away with it, making out it was me. For example, had issue few years back for noise, they came out attacked me, then called police and made out I attacked them. They have also made many false reports to the polcie and they quickly come out to them. Yet if I report them, even case of when they had guns and kelos in…

Why are you reporting things under your name? You don't want to get involved.

Calling the cops and telling them they have guns and kilos won't help because how would you know (in their minds) and why would they believe someone about ownership (they start looking at you). Any offers to setup your own operation makes it seem like you have something against the couple. Now you are the suspect.

Never threaten to kill yourself to get the cops attention because it will be focused on you not on why you are threatening to kill yourself.

Why do you continue to live there for years?

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#112

Post by ip26 »

leetcrew wrote: post #98
lmkg wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which do you think matters more to a person in an abusive situation? A. Paragraph two of some legal document somewhere B. "If you leave the house, I'll call the cops and tell them you're breaking quarantine, and then you'll go to jail and I'll be the only person who can get you out." I don't disagree with your last paragraph: There are other related issues and maybe some of them are worse. But how this actually plays…

is this a realistic hypothetical? most people in abusive situations either don't have another place to go in the first place, or the abuser has leverage (eg, a child) to keep them in that home. wouldn't the threat of calling the cops be only a marginal source of leverage?

A core part of many abusive relationships is the message "No one else cares about you, no one loves you, I'm the only one who will help you". The abuser will socially isolate the victim, cutting off friendships & family. What friends & family remain, the abuser will work to discredit or estrange, all the while telling the victim the abuser is the only person they can rely on.

I think you are imagining abuse victims as fully rational actors straining to break free, if only they had somewhere to go or full custody of their child. But a long time victim of this kind of abuse has been taught they are helpless, worthless, and alone. The only thing more frightening than staying, is leaving.

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#113

Post by paradox242 »

weggooi wrote: post #41

Estimates are that, if governments do nothing to combat Covid 19, then the life expectancy of the whole population will be reduced by a mere 20 days.[1] Sacrificing 4 months of exercise, meaningful conversation, sex and other basic human needs is really not worth it. [1] For example 13.26 million QALYs divided by the US population https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/another-covid-cost-ben...

All of those things are possible while maintaining social distancing. If you are young, then 4 months is whatever, you have plenty of time left in your life.

You are right, the cost/benefit is not there if you care only for yourself and you are not someone who is immune-compromised. The ask is that you consider other people (do you have any family or friends who could die from this?) and even if you have mild or no symptoms, you could act as a carrier that infects other people and may even be responsible for the disease that kills them.

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#114

Post by leetcrew »

mrlala wrote: post #71
viklove wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I'm not saying this is the right place for his frustration, but it is a bit annoying that the narrative around domestic abuse is that it's something men to do women, while in reality the statistics show us that both men and women are guilty of domestic violence at about the same rate. There are thousands of shelters for women in the US, while for men there are less than 5 scattered across the country. Men and wo…

>while in reality the statistics show us that both men and women are guilty of domestic violence at about the same rate I find that _extremely_ suspect. > In the U.S., about 31 percent of men and 37 percent of women have experienced sexual violence, physical violence or stalking by an intimate partner, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. I am not disagreeing with that statistic, but it's a si…

I upvoted you because I think you are making a partially valid point. a woman attempted to physically restrain me from leaving her apartment once after I turned her down. in the moment, I found it more pathetic than scary. it wasn't until the next day that I thought about how differently I would view that situation if the genders were reversed (or how badly it might have gone for me if I actually had to fight her in her own home). the threat of physical violence from partners is probably not as serious for most men as it is for most women, but I think it is also wrong to casually dismiss men who don't realize in the moment that they are being abused. not being able to immediately categorize abuse doesn't necessarily mean the harm isn't done.

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#115

Post by derefr »

lmkg wrote: post #27
OrangeMango wrote: post #15

Where I am, the second paragraph of the executive order establishing the "lockdown" explicitly states that victims of domestic violence are exempt and are urged to leave for a safer location. It makes clear further in the order that services provided are considered essential and should remain open and that transportation is also essential and should remain available. The news media simply does a terrible job of commu…

Which do you think matters more to a person in an abusive situation? A. Paragraph two of some legal document somewhere B. "If you leave the house, I'll call the cops and tell them you're breaking quarantine, and then you'll go to jail and I'll be the only person who can get you out." I don't disagree with your last paragraph: There are other related issues and maybe some of them are worse. But how this actually plays…

An accusation of domestic abuse would be taken far more seriously than an accusation of "being outside without a reason", I would think. Especially if you're a police officer, trained to respond to domestic violence calls, but never really trained about the seriousness of epidemic management.

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#116

Post by [deleted] »

john_moscow wrote: post #83
Zenst wrote: post #7

I'm Stuck in a flat above heroin/crack abusers, they have dealers in all the time, abuse the victim card and keep getting away with it. Police, council.... all just victimhood them and dispite over years and years of having hard evidence, they just ignore it. Equally the partner of the women had a business, working and she got him hooked on the stuff, she's abusive, killing him and nobody over the years seems to care…

>So nobody dares do anything as they have lost faith in the police and all support. >I have aspergers and have serious PTSD due to years of this abuse and need help getting the truth out there. Here's one uncomfortable fact about our society that most people sort of feel, but don't usually express in words. Despite what people say, nobody gives a damn about others' problems. People will tell you all kinds of kind and…

[deleted]

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#117

Post by btilly »

leetcrew wrote: post #98
lmkg wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which do you think matters more to a person in an abusive situation? A. Paragraph two of some legal document somewhere B. "If you leave the house, I'll call the cops and tell them you're breaking quarantine, and then you'll go to jail and I'll be the only person who can get you out." I don't disagree with your last paragraph: There are other related issues and maybe some of them are worse. But how this actually plays…

is this a realistic hypothetical? most people in abusive situations either don't have another place to go in the first place, or the abuser has leverage (eg, a child) to keep them in that home. wouldn't the threat of calling the cops be only a marginal source of leverage?

is this a realistic hypothetical?

Extremely reasonable.

Abused people get into a mindset where the abuser is an authority. The authority knows things you do not, and will be believed by others. And the cost of testing this authority will be..horrendous.

The more confidence that the abuser displays that the rest of the world will be on his side, the more that this message is strengthened. It doesn't matter whether it is true, it matters whether it is believed. "Nobody will believe that you're an abuse victim. They will just hand you back to me."

The real chain holding the victim in place is in the victim's mind. And abusers strengthen that chain early and often. :-(

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#118

Post by eric_b »

I'm glad there's starting to be some press about different groups for whom the shutdown has outsized negative impacts.

Another such "forgotten" group is Alcoholics Anonymous. Their meetings are mostly canceled, and for a lot of those folks those meetings are what keeps them on the wagon.

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#119

Post by tomp »

zepto wrote: post #69
kick wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When trying to protect people (or, more accurately, trying not to hurt people) in low-information or high-stress situations (both very common for abusive situations), you can't throw something that essential into the second paragraph of a document that few outside of pundits will ever read. The goal would be for the exception to be noticeable-enough that it ended up in most headlines. How to achieve that is an intere…

Realistically, people who stay in abusive relationships were already stuck. The problem wasn’t cause by the lockdown. Only compounded. Changing the presentation of a document won’t change this. What would, is a society that doesn’t tolerate the problem, and provides material support for the abused. We are a long way from that.

Which (developed Western) society tolerates the problem?

The core crux of the problem is literally that the society can't really do anything - the victim has to leave, out of their own volition, and that rarely happens (people who leave quickly aren't the problem, they don't get stuck in abusive situations in the first place).

I mean maybe this was a problem 30 years ago, but I've been bombarded with images, ads, information about abuse and victim shelters etc. my whole life, so it seems to me that society is pretty much doing the most it can.

Edit: seems to have hit a sore spot... look, I'm just annoyed everytime someone says "society tolerates slavery/trafficking/homelessness/poverty/rape/cancer/child abuse/organised crime/violence/..." - just because we haven't come up with a perfect solution to the problem (usually because the problem isn't as simple as some people imagine) doesn't mean that the society tolerates the problem...

Re: For people with an abusive partner, lockdown means captivity

#120

Post by watwut »

derefr wrote: post #115
lmkg wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which do you think matters more to a person in an abusive situation? A. Paragraph two of some legal document somewhere B. "If you leave the house, I'll call the cops and tell them you're breaking quarantine, and then you'll go to jail and I'll be the only person who can get you out." I don't disagree with your last paragraph: There are other related issues and maybe some of them are worse. But how this actually plays…

An accusation of domestic abuse would be taken far more seriously than an accusation of "being outside without a reason", I would think. Especially if you're a police officer, trained to respond to domestic violence calls, but never really trained about the seriousness of epidemic management.

They are nit taken that seriously absent visible injuries. And statistically cops are more likely to be domestic abusers then general population.
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