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Huawei is dividing Western nations

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Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#111

Post by mrtksn »

amachefe wrote: post #108
mrtksn wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could the reason be that the US and the others have different access to the companies? The US was caught when somebody blew the whistle, just Google for PRISM, for example. China and others could not have done that, therefore they would do something else. They make and ship hardware, therefore their vector of attack would be expected to be that hardware. Unlike the US though, I am not aware of any substantial attack…

Saying US has been proven and not Chinese is the real propaganda. China has been caught countless times. Anyone working in network security or Telecom have their China story It is no longer treated with fanfare because unlike US it's is almost common.

Anecdotes of individual cases are not the same as the institutionalized spying and the presidential "oops, won't do it again" once the spying is revealed.

I have no doubt that China or Saudi Arabia or Russia and so on have spying programs and there were cases of revealed moles installed in companies but it's nowhere nearly as substantial as US directly plugging into the systems that run globally and running mass surveillance programs.

Google for Wikileaks, Snowden. Assange. The results will surprise you.

All this debacle looks nothing more than the US not wanting competition. It doesn't even look like the Chinese mass spying efforts are beyond a startup stage when the US spying is equivalent of a giant and established corporation. Actually, not even a startup, more like mom and pop shops of spying.

I think it's alright, US is no longer the country that stands for something beyond nationalism and most of the Western nations are not covered by that American Nationalism.

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#112

Post by mantas »

op03 wrote: post #88
nimbius wrote: post #22

>...the goal of American policy on Huawei is less about security and more about market share – and making sure America, not China, owns the future of 5G. Bingo. Most HN readers saw this for exactly what it was. Most of the premise for the arrest of Meng Wanzhou was comical at best. 30 years of US companies ignoring ITAR with at most a small fine, only to suddenly watch the US issue an extradition warrant for a chines…

It wont change. There is too much inertia. But its not all bad. Maybe in future the West will play to its real strengths - provide entertainment/content, reality tv, sports, celebs and of course porn for those 5G, 6G, 7G...networks. While tech and science moves elsewhere. The best and brightest in science and tech will just move to where ever its happening.

Your social score has increased!

If West was reduce to entertainment provider, I doubt we'll get to keep or flawed democracy and freedoms. I'd rather have slower cellular network rather than CCP-style government...

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#113

Post by mantas »

matsemann wrote: post #78
NicoJuicy wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one in the West will put you in concentration camps for having your opinion. They won't censor it also

No one in China will put me in a camp either, as I don't live or travel there. Which is my point. Not saying usa will put me in a camp, but currently they have more options to screw me over. (and us do put children in camps) It may be a bit hyperbole. But I just don't want to be so quick to accept the narrative that west=good east=bad

If China will get stronger, they'll force other governments to follow their rules. And it's likely that those Chinese-friendly governments will do Chinese-style stuff locally too.

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#114

Post by i_have_suffered »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #97
i_have_suffered wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK's weakness was exposed by the 2011 veto and subsequent upending of the EU treaties to suit everyone apart from the UK. We had been floundering in that club since 2009, despite bailing out other members (ie. Ireland) - and when push came to shove Germany and France made it clear that the UK could shove off. The UK is no weaker now than it was then - it's just that it's clear where we stand. The great powers of…

We had a huge influence over the EU, that's gone out the window now. You can't become great by isolating yourself.

We had a huge influence right up until push came to shove and then we had none. I agree we can't become great - isolation or not; I believe that isolation isn't on the table either - next few weeks excluded. The reality is that France and Germany shafted the UK publicly and conclusively during the euro crisis, they also shafted the Greeks - but I'm not Greek so that's less of a problem for me. Remember also that they removed an Italian government and installed a technocrat. Yet lots of people seem to have forgotten that and either don't care or can't bring themselves to see the reality of the situation.

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#115

Post by KozmoNau7 »

state_less wrote: post #71
nimbius wrote: post #22

>...the goal of American policy on Huawei is less about security and more about market share – and making sure America, not China, owns the future of 5G. Bingo. Most HN readers saw this for exactly what it was. Most of the premise for the arrest of Meng Wanzhou was comical at best. 30 years of US companies ignoring ITAR with at most a small fine, only to suddenly watch the US issue an extradition warrant for a chines…

All the wireless companies spend their money on shareholder dividends and purchasing restricted access to the airwaves. And now the US government doesn't like the new gatekeeper (i.e. China) controlling these companies. Due to government selling the rights to our airwaves to the highest bidder, the modern portable computer + radios are locked down and obscured under layers of corporate control and constraint. I'd muc…

If/when the corporate grip on the internet is tightened enough that even VPNs and onion routing become impractical or sabotaged, I could absolutely see low-bandwidth mesh networks provide a primarily text-based unfiltered communications channel. The caveat of course being that strong encryption would be absolutely mandatory.

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#116

Post by KozmoNau7 »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #90
matsemann wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one in China will put me in a camp either, as I don't live or travel there. Which is my point. Not saying usa will put me in a camp, but currently they have more options to screw me over. (and us do put children in camps) It may be a bit hyperbole. But I just don't want to be so quick to accept the narrative that west=good east=bad

I'm not saying the east is bad. Don't change my words, jees! If you haven't noticed. The protests in Hong Kong are related to the extradiction law from China that was forced on to them. And yes, people already disappeared. And finally, if you want a statement, it's that democracy leads to a fairer society and communism leads to abuse of power.

I would like to correct your statement slightly: Authoritarianism and totalitarianism of any ideological color leads to abuse of power.

All political systems are susceptible to being abused by those with a desire for power over others. That is why leaders must always be accountable to the people. Most politicians are deeply vested in trying to break that accountability.

We shouldn't have to choose between one-party political rule or corporate drone bought-and-sold rule as the only options.

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#117

Post by thawaway1837 »

zobzu wrote: post #49
nimbius wrote: post #22

>...the goal of American policy on Huawei is less about security and more about market share – and making sure America, not China, owns the future of 5G. Bingo. Most HN readers saw this for exactly what it was. Most of the premise for the arrest of Meng Wanzhou was comical at best. 30 years of US companies ignoring ITAR with at most a small fine, only to suddenly watch the US issue an extradition warrant for a chines…

My personal take is: Huawei belongs to CCP. Korean and US companies do not belong to their governments. This should be an issue by default, in my opinion. That said it's not why I distrust Huawei (not that I trust Google, Cisco, Qualcomm all that much more - but I give them more benefit of the doubt). I don't even care about ATT because if you trust your carrier you're already toast, and I do not know any carrier tha…

There is a lot of evidence about US backdoors. The invisible dots on every printed page in the world. The Snowden leaks. The fact that the US is publicly trying to get Apple to install backdoors on their phones and threatening to pass laws to make them do so (they don’t seem to be speaking up as much about google which makes me wonder if Google has already capitulated). The ability to get any cloud provider to share any info with the US government (this is theoretically better than China, because unlike China’s case, it requires judicial approval...in practice it isn’t much better, because judicial approval is given 100% of the time).

I still strongly believe that if I had to lose my privacy, and needed to install a backdoors on my devices, I’d much rather it be to an American 3 letter agency than a Chinese one of any form. That doesn’t change the fact that the NSA and co have been proven to do much worse than what Huawei is being accused of doing potentially in the future.

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#118

Post by mantas »

ganzuul wrote: post #10
Roritharr wrote: post #5

China is indeed very divise for our global powerstructures. This Video shows a WHO official battling with this(if you want to look kindly upon him): https://twitter.com/nathanlawkc/status/1243889673207832577 What bugs me is that I'm really unsure if I should post anything critical of China, it's scary what that could mean for my family 30 years down the road.

This rhetoric against China, legitimate or not, seems like a precursor to war. I wish somebody would investigate if a troll factory is behind it or if it truly is a popular opinion.

Rather China's actions seem like precursor to war. Corona virus crisis may be the tipping point in Chinese influence growth as people become aware how West is becoming more and more relient on China.

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#119

Post by thawaway1837 »

danmaz74 wrote: post #35
chvid wrote: post #11

I think the main issue is that most europeans are just not so hot on a war with China as the americans are; even after a massive media campaign. I believe the next move by the US will be to force TSMC not to supply Huawei. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-huawei-tech-chips-exc... That will be a major blow to Huawei (and TSMC) and will force the Chinese to setup their own chip production as fast as possible. Wil…

When the president of the USA openly disparages Europe at every opportunity, it's pretty difficult to feel very sympathetic with the us administration on such matters.

This is the reality.

The Europeans would have been just fine with working with the US against China. The problem is that the “great negotiator” thought that what would be really brilliant would be to first attack your allies, and then ask them to help you when going up against your enemy.

What seems strangely forgotten in these discussions is that the first round of tariffs the Trump administration imposed on anybody, was steel tariffs on the Europeans.

No other country in the world has absolutely any reason to trust the US, especially now that the government cannot even be trusted to act in their own selfish interests (but rather, is dependent on the whims of 1 extremely stable genius).

Re: Huawei is dividing Western nations

#120

Post by thawaway1837 »

frequentnapper wrote: post #94
chvid wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Americans realise how much diplomatic influence has been lost in Europe. To me the American tradition of a politicised diplomatic corps is to blame. The politics of Trump is just very far from mainstream European politics. I am personally convinced that had the campaign against Huawei been done by the Obama administration there would be no Huawei technology in the EU at this point.

I am curious why it wasn't. Did Obama just drop the ball? I'm sure he knew how much of a serious threat Huawei was.

Because Obama was tackling the Chinese in a much more effective and long term manner through the TPP.

And because 5G decision making hadnt really begun until early last year.

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