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Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

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Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#91

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

Barrin92 wrote: post #64
strictnein wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is currently testing ~100k people each day: https://covidtracking.com/us-daily/ The failure at the beginning was not to have capacity ready. The huge US medical system and its very, very large medical industry has finally gotten pointed in the right direction in regards to testing.

The testing capacity is good now but the response to the actual pandemic is a disaster. If you have the president talk about packed churches on Easter you can soon save yourself the testing because it's going to be hard to find someone who isn't infected

It's important for the president to communicate the message that lockdowns are bad and they're trying to get people out of their homes as soon as possible. I don't think anyone believes the president is actually going to pack churches on Easter if there's still a large outbreak at the time, but that'll be 4 weeks after the national stay at home initiative started, so it's pretty in line with the durations other countries have set.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#92

Post by drstewart »

tenpies wrote: post #52
drpgq wrote: post #37

As a Canadian I think there's a pretty strong possibility that we get the virus under control while it still rages in the US for quite some time. I'm not really sure what that will mean.

I have seen this mentioned, but I'm honestly now sure why Canadians think this. What special measures did Canada take early on? What makes Canada exceptional compared to the US who at least banned some flights? The only difference is that the media doesn't absolutely despise Trudeau, but we're effectively the same. The US is actually surpassing us in testing at this point and some of our most populous provinces have…

I don't really understand this either. As someone who's in Seattle, it seemed like BC lagged 2-3 days behind every action taken in Washington (e.g. closing schools).

I keep seeing Canadians say their response was magnitudes better but I don't see why.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#93

Post by verroq »

brigandish wrote: post #83
verroq wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's obvious that wearing a mask helps. > Don't wear a mask because they don't work > Doctors and nurses need masks because they work > ??? If anything, it prevents/reduces asymptomatic people from spreading.

You can tell me in 2 weeks time if that's true when the number of actual cases is impossible for the government to deny any more. As to the masks, in a clinical setting: - clinicians will likely get much closer to someone - patients are much more likely to have an infection - masks are worn properly - masks are disposed of properly - the wearers have had extensive training and experience They don't, as a salaryman mi…

> clinicians will likely get much closer to someone

> patients are much more likely to have an infection

Most of the spread is from people that are asymptomatic.

You don't know who has the virus or not.

So if the argument here is that doctors and nurses are at higher risk, and need more protection, then my counter argument is that you don't know what the risk is simply because people can be asymptomatic.

Secondly, masks a very effective at preventing already sick people from spreading the disease. Given the vast majority cases are asymptomatic and the infected don't even know they are sick, if everyone had masks it would dramatically reduce spread from the asymptomatic.

Even an improperly worn mask is better than no mask.

It's not about achieving 100% perfect protection, it's about some protection.

Even if somebody pulled down their mask to sneeze, if everyone else had masks on then it won't be as big of a deal.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#94

Post by refurb »

drpgq wrote: post #37

As a Canadian I think there's a pretty strong possibility that we get the virus under control while it still rages in the US for quite some time. I'm not really sure what that will mean.

Canada has a massive backlog of testing, similar to the US. The current number of cases doesn't reflect reality.[1]

[1]https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/03/27/ontario-has-m...

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#95

Post by seanmcdirmid »

CivBase wrote: post #79

Okay... but why specifically the United States? Shouldn't they ban entry from just about every nation right now? Did the article just fail to mention existing travel bans for other nations? The US has a very high number of confirmed cases, but it still pales in comparison to many other nations in terms of percent of population. Banning international travel is a reasonable precaution, but why specifically the US? I ca…

International travel is already effectively disabled around the world, this ban is just preventing a few stragglers from going.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#96

Post by chrischen »

brigandish wrote: post #60
fasteddie31003 wrote: post #47

Japan has had a low infection rate because of their strong mask-wearing culture. Western countries are experiencing higher rates of COVID-19 infections compared to Asian countries because of the West's aversion to wearing masks. Please help me spread this message http://www.maskssavelives.org/

I don't know how many times this is going to come up on these page but this is unsupported by any study for the kind of masks people actually wear and for a non-clinical setting, and anyone who has spent any time here will know it's rubbish. Just last night my wife was telling me about a conversation with her work colleagues about masks. She wears one per day, one to work and the same one for the way home - this is a…

Even if a mask doesn't protect a person sneezing into your face from transmitting the virus to you, that hardly means that it is 100% ineffective otherwise... and hospitals wouldn't be clamoring for them if they were ineffective (https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/why-would-...).

With just a bit of common sense you can reason that masks absolutely do help prevent the spread of the virus:

1. A strong mask culture in dense areas means that even sick people will be incentivized to wear masks, which is known to be effective in limiting transmission. Studies on airplanes have shown that a sick person wearing a mask can stop the transmission on a plane. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23968983/)

2. The mask prevents you from touching your mouth with your hands, and reminds you to not touch your face.

3. Many people in Japan wear masks to prevent stuff from their own mouths going into other peoples' faces, and not for the commonly assumed selfish reasons for wearing one that Americans keep focusing on.

4. The effectiveness of masks is not binary. Recommendations against using masks probably come because

a) people are probably doing other things that are already higher risk than not wearing a mask and

b) there is a shortage of masks.

Some more tidbits cited from the study: Less efficient face masks (e.g., surgical or medical) also decrease exposure to aerosols of droplet nuclei to a lesser (8–12 fold) degree than N95 masks (36), and they provide protection against larger droplets. We did not determine the type of mask worn by the passengers; presumably, individually acquired masks represented a mixture of N95 and other less efficient masks. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23968983/)

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#97

Post by mancerayder »

jdkee wrote: post #74
strictnein wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is currently testing ~100k people each day: https://covidtracking.com/us-daily/ The failure at the beginning was not to have capacity ready. The huge US medical system and its very, very large medical industry has finally gotten pointed in the right direction in regards to testing.

I was tested this past Thursday and came back negative yesterday. Two weeks ago I was exhibiting the classic symptoms. Last week I had five days of noticeable shortness of breath, lethargy, sinus infection and a dry cough. I wanted to get tested a week ago this past Monday but did not meet the criteria. Now I am awaiting the availability of serological tests to see if I have the antibodies. I pulled the kids out of s…

To add fuel to the fire, you could have mentioned the initial response from the executive branch: "It's basically like the flu."

Over two weeks ago I was correcting people who are otherwise intelligent but "executive branch supporters" to use a potential euphemism, to get their elder parents outside of the city.

One of these friends has someone close to them in the ICU on a respirator as I write this. Are they any less supporters of the executive branch? I think you already know the (depressing) answer.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#98

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #30
yalogin wrote: post #18

Doesn’t logic dictate that all international travel time and from all countries be stopped for a few months?

One improvement over a full travel ban would be mandatory government-run 2-week(?) quarantine every time someone arrives from abroad.

That's Japan's current policy for American travelers - they're upgrading it to a ban.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#99

Post by brigandish »

Jommi wrote: post #78
brigandish wrote: post #53

This would've been a good idea before Chinese New Year for those coming from China but the Japanese government, in its infinite wisdom, didn't want to miss out on the money all those tourists bring. At least they've done well suppressing the true number of cases until the Olympics was cancelled. Even if it should've been bloody obvious they have been lying, most of the rest of the world - as per usual - decided that…

Any sources/links indicating that the numbers are VASTLY different than communicated on the news?

The numbers would surely come out in a study later in the year, if not next year, as they do for other kinds of cover up here[1][2] or simply because it's hard to find out as it's happening in such a short time over such a large area during a pandemic. Personally, I'm basing it on:

- The propensity for cover ups to happen (even on a small scale, it's part of the culture of maintaing wa)

- The strange lack of testing while the Olympics was still a possibility

- The ease with which deaths could be covered up given the system here and things like the already mentioned kodokushi deaths

- The many anecdotes of people being turned away for tests[3]

- The knowledge that Japan and the Japanese are not special, so their position as an outlier must have some reason beyond "they wear masks" (how did wearing masks help in China?) while there are barely any measures to prevent transmission in place

- I like Ockham's Razor

[1] https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/06/kodokushi-in-agi...

[2] https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/07/31/national/crime-...

[3] https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusJapan/

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#100

Post by hkmurakami »

gruez wrote: post #27
whymauri wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The restriction applies even to Japanese nationals returning from the United States. That's probably the answer. Some amount of heads-up is owed to Japanese nationals. A Taiwanese friend was in a similar situation w.r.t. Taiwan closing borders. Uncertainty of timeline and parameters can be incredibly disruptive for citizens trying to travel back to their home country. They might not have permanent lodging in the U.S…

>That's probably the answer. Some amount of heads-up is owed to Japanese nationals. Why not ban foreigners immediately, then ban nationals a few days later?

There are always corner cases like (1) a Japan-based non-PR/citizen professional who's on a work trip to the US who needs a couple days to get back to Japan, or (2) someone's partner who again is based in Japan but is currently in the US traveling temporarily for work/family/leisure. Typically spouses of citizens/PRs can tag along through travel restrictions but a romantic/domestic partner will not have this avenue available (also spouses traveling alone without their PR/Citizen partner)
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