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Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

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Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#81

Post by cm2187 »

briandear wrote: post #65
joshgachnang wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's still some groups of people you'd want to let in. For example, someone married to or in a long term relationship with a national who is outside the country right now. Or even foreigners that live there but are nationals yet.

Does the virus care about those groups? Either close the border or don’t. A family member can carry the virus end just as easily as a tourist. If the reasons for closing it are to prevent the spread, then having a bunch or exceptions defeats the purpose.

If it is small numbers, you can test for symptoms on arrival. The problem is leaving people in impossible situations abroad, overstaying their visa, not having the means to pay for accommodations (particularly if hotels close), etc.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#83

Post by brigandish »

verroq wrote: post #76
brigandish wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how many times this is going to come up on these page but this is unsupported by any study for the kind of masks people actually wear and for a non-clinical setting, and anyone who has spent any time here will know it's rubbish. Just last night my wife was telling me about a conversation with her work colleagues about masks. She wears one per day, one to work and the same one for the way home - this is a…

It's obvious that wearing a mask helps. > Don't wear a mask because they don't work > Doctors and nurses need masks because they work > ??? If anything, it prevents/reduces asymptomatic people from spreading.

You can tell me in 2 weeks time if that's true when the number of actual cases is impossible for the government to deny any more.

As to the masks, in a clinical setting:

- clinicians will likely get much closer to someone

- patients are much more likely to have an infection

- masks are worn properly

- masks are disposed of properly

- the wearers have had extensive training and experience

They don't, as a salaryman might, pull down their mask to talk to you, or to sneeze so they don't have to use a new mask in the afternoon.

Edit: formatting, I always forget (sorry).

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#84

Post by chrischen »

2019-nCoV wrote: post #35
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #5

With all these provisions: if you've decided it would be a good idea to do, why not do it now? If it's a good idea now, it's going to be twice as good of an idea in three days. And it's going to be four times as good of an idea in six. Etc. Over and over again the organs of governments announce decisions that would be a good idea today that don't come into effect until a few days from now. Which means that the harm d…

> Unless they are magically different from every other country Maybe being a conscientious nation-state, with a culture that prioritises the collective, cleanliness and mask usage, is close enough to magic.

I would say Japan is a bit cleaner than SK. Also a lot of the cult-religions seemed to have played a big part in spreading the disease.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#85

Post by adele11 »

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #30
yalogin wrote: post #18

Doesn’t logic dictate that all international travel time and from all countries be stopped for a few months?

One improvement over a full travel ban would be mandatory government-run 2-week(?) quarantine every time someone arrives from abroad.

Australia is now requiring a 2 week hotel isolation

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#86

Post by Retric »

briandear wrote: post #65
joshgachnang wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's still some groups of people you'd want to let in. For example, someone married to or in a long term relationship with a national who is outside the country right now. Or even foreigners that live there but are nationals yet.

Does the virus care about those groups? Either close the border or don’t. A family member can carry the virus end just as easily as a tourist. If the reasons for closing it are to prevent the spread, then having a bunch or exceptions defeats the purpose.

The virus is still quite rare in every country. Unchecked it has a growth factor of around 3 to 4 new infections per case but simply reducing the risk of infection by 80% is enough to eventually reduce the number of active infections as seen in South Korea and China.

The question is mostly what vectors of infections to allow vs eliminate. And in that context banning travel from high risk areas is useful but not that important after community spreading has started. However, this changes based on how widespread the disease is inside each country. Thus, the delayed ban.

PS: Japan is a very interesting case, with the number of new infections being fairly steady over the last 2 weeks.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#88

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

vkou wrote: post #20

My only question is: "Why hasn't the world done this two weeks ago?" The US is failing to test on a massive scale, and the outbreak has been growing exponentially, week after week. Control measures are being taken, but on an inconsistent, fragmented basis.

Control measures are supposed to take place on an inconsistent, fragmented basis - American states have significant independent sovereignty.

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#89

Post by brigandish »

kevinpet wrote: post #69
brigandish wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how many times this is going to come up on these page but this is unsupported by any study for the kind of masks people actually wear and for a non-clinical setting, and anyone who has spent any time here will know it's rubbish. Just last night my wife was telling me about a conversation with her work colleagues about masks. She wears one per day, one to work and the same one for the way home - this is a…

If you claim "these specific details aren't supported by studies" that's compelling evidence if studies have been done, or would have a reason to be done, or if there's reason to believe the other studies that support similar conclusion are sufficiently different to not be relevant.

Studies haven't been done that support the claims that "masks work in non-clinical settings like a train or a street when used by a wearer who is not under supervision and is has not had training and is probably using their mask again for the nth time"

When that study comes out, let me know. The studies that have been done on surgical mask wearing show a very low and variable effect anyway. Would you like to see the one I saw on here from the other day that said wearing masks was more effective than handwashing?

No one's going to switch handwashing for a mask though, are they? ;-)

Re: Japan set to ban entry from the U.S. as early as next week

#90

Post by ModernMech »

tenpies wrote: post #52
drpgq wrote: post #37

As a Canadian I think there's a pretty strong possibility that we get the virus under control while it still rages in the US for quite some time. I'm not really sure what that will mean.

I have seen this mentioned, but I'm honestly now sure why Canadians think this. What special measures did Canada take early on? What makes Canada exceptional compared to the US who at least banned some flights? The only difference is that the media doesn't absolutely despise Trudeau, but we're effectively the same. The US is actually surpassing us in testing at this point and some of our most populous provinces have…

> The US is actually surpassing us in testing at this point and some of our most populous provinces have multiple day backlogs in their testing.

The US testing numbers are largely due to NY and WA. Per capita the US is still behind most countries. States like MI that are turning into a hot spot are way behind on testing. Florida, our 3rd most populous state with 21 million residents, has tested only 40k people.

https://twitter.com/COVID19Tracking/status/12440163161276620...

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