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How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

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Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#111

Post by claudeganon »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #99
Yizahi wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use self made cotton mask to go for groceries. It's garbage - it doesn't fit tightly around the face and most of the air I inhale or exhale goes through the sides unobstructed. Proper masks would be nice but unavailable everywhere and of course washing hands is a must.

It's not about protecting you from other people, it's about protecting other people from you. Many people are asymptomatic or very mildly sick, yet are able to infect other people. When you cough or wipe your nose, you risk infecting other people. The cheap mask prevents you from touching your face as much and catches heavier particles that can't curve around the bends of the facemask as easily like water and mucus.

No, it actually does protect you, just not as effectively as N-95s. That’s why hospitals are seeking out donations of homemade masks right now.

“The masks don’t do anything” story was just something floated around to prevent runs on hospital supplies. A better strategy would’ve have been to say “everyone make and wear your own masks and it will afford us some additional amount of protection.”

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#112

Post by ValentineC »

mcsb4 wrote: post #21

Again another article that doesn't even mention the use of masks and hand sanitizer. The cost of the epidemic now goes into the trillions, self-made cotton masks are cheap compared to the economic damage. They can be disinfected in boiling water and if everybody uses them they will help to stop the spreading of the virus. In all the countries mentioned in the article people wear masks when in public, often just again…

> In all the countries mentioned in the article people wear masks when in public, often just against pollution (i.e. Thailand).

Singapore resident here. Not enough people are wearing masks in Singapore, and the government has only distributed a token 4 masks per household (family members living at the same address), with no further measures to allow a family to replenish their mask supply.

A lot of us can't buy new ones at reasonable prices even if we want to.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#113

Post by odshoifsdhfs »

bawolff wrote: post #43
angarg12 wrote: post #3

I think comparing Singapore, a tiny, highly urbanized island nation, with the US, a continent size country with a vast number of points of entry, is a little bit apples to oranges. Don't get me wrong, I do think that some Asian countries took great measures to contain the virus, and some western countries failed to do so, but I doubt the same measures would be equally as effective everywhere. This is relevant because…

Why is it anytime usa screws up its because its a diverse nation that's different from all the other nations? Maybe sometimes the USA is just incompetent and usually it can get away with being incompetent without consequence because nobody wants to poke the 800lb gorilla, but sometimes consequences do happen.

Because pretty much all of Europe did the same so it isn't exclusive to USA?

NY did almost as many tests in a day as some european countries have done total. Of course they are going to have a spike in cases. No-one believe (in Europe at least) that the number of cases are the truth, and we pretty much know that a lot of people aren't being tests. Portugal until 2 days ago was rejecting tests still of people that had no 'known' chain of contagion. (Source, ex-wife works in the frontline of this crisis)

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#114

Post by adventured »

logicchains wrote: post #107
adventured wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a consideration. However, where is the million dead people that should be happening between these nations given the 440 million people? The virus would be destroying them at this point. We've seen what it can do in Italy, the US, Germany, France, etc. in terms of spreading and hitting ICU units, killing people. It has a 10% mortality rate despite Italy's best efforts, and a 5.7% mortality rate in France (among p…

Check the population pyramid for these countries. They have a way smaller fraction of old people, and a way larger fraction of young people. This has a big effect on fatality rates.

Thailand is older than the US or China at the median. In their case, they're not a young nation, like the Philippines is (Vietnam, Indonesia and Mexico, 30-32 at the median, are more of a mixture between the two). And of course Italy, Germany and Spain are very old nations (Germany & Italy being nearly twice the median age of the Philippines).

Youth certainly has a big impact on mortality rates with Covid, and not such a huge impact on ICU rates. Close to half of the most serious cases in eg NYC and France are of people under 50.

We'd see the system overload in places like Thailand and Mexico, as their ICUs would still flood with people over the age of ~20 (and as you note, they'd potentially have a lower mortality rate due to fewer old people as a percentage of the population; although Mexico does have a very high obesity and diabetes rate in their specific context, which might complicate their mortality factors (recently noted as a concern by one of their govt health officials)).

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#115

Post by Kiro »

raaaaraaaa12 wrote: post #32
mcsb4 wrote: post #21

Again another article that doesn't even mention the use of masks and hand sanitizer. The cost of the epidemic now goes into the trillions, self-made cotton masks are cheap compared to the economic damage. They can be disinfected in boiling water and if everybody uses them they will help to stop the spreading of the virus. In all the countries mentioned in the article people wear masks when in public, often just again…

We have face mask mandatory now in Czech Republic, Italy scared us and goverment reacted quickly. Its not over yet but we are on the right track. https://news.expats.cz/health-medical/breaking-face-covering...

How does that work when it's impossible to buy masks anywhere?

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#116

Post by Symmetry »

claudeganon wrote: post #111
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about protecting you from other people, it's about protecting other people from you. Many people are asymptomatic or very mildly sick, yet are able to infect other people. When you cough or wipe your nose, you risk infecting other people. The cheap mask prevents you from touching your face as much and catches heavier particles that can't curve around the bends of the facemask as easily like water and mucus.

No, it actually does protect you, just not as effectively as N-95s. That’s why hospitals are seeking out donations of homemade masks right now. “The masks don’t do anything” story was just something floated around to prevent runs on hospital supplies. A better strategy would’ve have been to say “everyone make and wear your own masks and it will afford us some additional amount of protection.”

I wouldn't rush to assume that it was part of a deliberate deception. People assume the function of an item from its intended use all the time and surgical masks genuinely don't provide that much protection from some viruses like measles or chicken pox. I think it's just a case that "they don't protect you" being the unexamined received wisdom and people just not bothering to look at actual studies.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#117

Post by jessaustin »

adventured wrote: post #6

So have Thailand, the Philippines and Indonesia (440 million people). They've all had fewer cases than Luxembourg so far. I've yet to see a good explanation for it, other than maybe the premise about seasonal temps and humidity (northern vs southern hemisphere). There's no evidence they're massively lying about their numbers (which would show up in the form of a demolished hospital system and thousands dead of pneumo…

Are you saying that Korea is warmer than Italy during January, February, and March? That is definitely not true. Maybe in the summer...

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#118

Post by Roritharr »

ValentineC wrote: post #112
mcsb4 wrote: post #21

Again another article that doesn't even mention the use of masks and hand sanitizer. The cost of the epidemic now goes into the trillions, self-made cotton masks are cheap compared to the economic damage. They can be disinfected in boiling water and if everybody uses them they will help to stop the spreading of the virus. In all the countries mentioned in the article people wear masks when in public, often just again…

> In all the countries mentioned in the article people wear masks when in public, often just against pollution (i.e. Thailand). Singapore resident here. Not enough people are wearing masks in Singapore, and the government has only distributed a token 4 masks per household (family members living at the same address), with no further measures to allow a family to replenish their mask supply. A lot of us can't buy new o…

German resident here, our chief virologist that everyone listens to, Christian Drosten, was firmly against mask usage in the common population, until just now, the RKI was similarly unhelpful when communicating advice for the disease.

The population is completely confused and feel righteous anger now telling people off when they wear professional (medical disposable, or ffp3/n95) masks to go shopping or elsewhere. It's insane.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#119

Post by 9nGQluzmnq3M »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #65
Tepix wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything, containing a pandemic in a large city is much harder than doing so in the countryside.

Singapore is very dense but it is also very authoritarian. They can take measures that would be both legally and socially unthinkable in the United States.

And what would those specific measures be, pray tell? If anything, Singapore's measures have been more moderate than what's happening today in the USA.

Re: How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

#120

Post by supdatecron »

mcsb4 wrote: post #21

Again another article that doesn't even mention the use of masks and hand sanitizer. The cost of the epidemic now goes into the trillions, self-made cotton masks are cheap compared to the economic damage. They can be disinfected in boiling water and if everybody uses them they will help to stop the spreading of the virus. In all the countries mentioned in the article people wear masks when in public, often just again…

There was a study that showed cotton masks can actually be worse. A medical person showed me the other day, I’ll have to ask for the link
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