Dwarf Fortress: An actual look at graphical improvements

Post by Grue3 » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 6:53 AM UTC

kibwen wrote: post #23

jtolmar wrote: post #10

I never thought the ASCII graphics were a big problem in Dwarf Fortress; once you get used to it using a bunch of symbols as decoration, almost all the weird stuff ends up being things you placed yourself. On the other hand, the complete lack of UX consistency - whether a given submenu will use primary/secondary cursor keys, nested menus, or a pile of hotkeys - is a lot harder to deal with.

In addition to DF I also play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, a venerable (and actively developed!) roguelike with the classic ASCII look, and I'd like to present a counterpoint: once it became possible to play DCSS online using the graphical tiles interface rather than the ASCII look, new players overwhelmingly prefer the graphical. Stats that I have seen indicate >95% choose the graphical tiles. I myself still play both…

Post by vanderZwan » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 8:31 AM UTC

Grue3 wrote: post #131

kibwen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to DF I also play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, a venerable (and actively developed!) roguelike with the classic ASCII look, and I'd like to present a counterpoint: once it became possible to play DCSS online using the graphical tiles interface rather than the ASCII look, new players overwhelmingly prefer the graphical. Stats that I have seen indicate >95% choose the graphical tiles. I myself still play both…

>new players overwhelmingly prefer the graphical Maybe because they're not used to ASCII look? What are the stats for old players? The tiles version has laughably low information density, I can't imagine playing it for any extended period of time.

Post by Narishma » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 9:48 AM UTC

Tomis02 wrote: post #128

zionic wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely disagree. The ASCII "graphics" (if you can really call them that) are a huge reason why I've never even considered playing it. I've read all about the mechanics, and they're interesting. I just don't understand why anyone would spend so much time developing so many intricate features when the presentation is so poor.

Some people play games for the gameplay, and the ASCII graphics allow them to project their imagination and obtain any fantasy world they want. The rest of the people play Call of Duty and FIFA, and would be hard-pressed to ever leave their comfort zone.

Post by blaser-waffle » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 1:17 PM UTC

outworlder wrote: post #66

cjhveal wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally agree. A lot of those disagreeing with you find the ASCII graphics to be a barrier to initial entry, which is true, but it is a barrier that you can overcome quickly and feel quite comfortable with. On the other hand, having spent many hours with the game, the UX issues you mention are what block me from building fluid muscle memory and being able to really get into the game.

Graphics is not the main issue here. There are other issues that are much more important. Like the jobs interface. I don't want to have to run Dwarf Therapist alongside it, when games like Rimworld and ONI manage just fine.

Post by rashkov » Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 11:02 PM UTC

Octopodes wrote: post #94

archgoon wrote: post #67

Dwarf Fortress strikes me as a game that would benefit from a strong engine / UI split, with an API for querying the world state. That said, DFHack is probably sufficient for this purpose. https://docs.dfhack.org/en/stable/

I haven't used it, but Dwarf Fortress Remote for iOS seems to accomplish this somehow; the whole UI is iOS native. Obviously there's no official API, but the developer has somehow managed to achieve something similar. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dwarf-fortress-remote/id100366...