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Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

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Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#771

Post by 40four »

sequoia wrote: post #757
40four wrote: post #751

This just sounds like a great reason to not use Safari. I switched to iOS recently, but I’m a dedicated Firefox user, so I personally don’t touch it except when I’m forced to by other apps opening links. (I was honestly REALLY disappointed in Apple when I realized that you’re not allowed to set a default browser besides safari, but that’s another story) Forgive me, I’m a long time Android user, but do a lot of people…

"do a lot of people chose to use safari" No. On iOS, www = safari to almost all users.

Thanks for pointing this out. Always had Android before, now I see.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#773

Post by enos_feedler »

modeless wrote: post #703
wubin wrote: post #483

The source clarifies that this only applies to websites run within the Safari browser.[1] PWAs added to the home screen aren't affected. > As mentioned, the seven-day cap on script-writable storage is gated on "after seven days of Safari use without user interaction on the site." That is the case in Safari. Web applications added to the home screen are not part of Safari and thus have their own counter of days of use…

As the article has been updated to say, "installing" a PWA to the home screen is an optional step that many people prefer not to do in favor of bookmarks or the address bar or the new tab page or whatever. But it's no surprise that Apple would want to impose an "install" step on the web to prevent it from looking more attractive than the App Store.

It is no surprise because the whole point of keeping storage around is because you intend to come back. Pinning a website to a homescreen is clear intent. Having a tab or a bookmark does not make that clear. I have tabs and bookmarks open that I haven't visited in years. Thankfully Safari now kills tabs that haven't been touched within X time frame.

"impose" is the wrong word. I think you mean they are "trying to understand you and do the best thing"

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#774

Post by NightlyDev »

scarface74 wrote: post #31
akmarinov wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way that's happening on iOS as long as Apple takes 30% off the top

Yes because think of all the money Apple gets from taking 30% all of the free apps that would be free web apps....

Yeah, cause everything in the browser is free, right?

Clearly it's A LOT of money for apple. If they didn't care about the money then they would just allow it so everyone could avoid receiving payments using apple and giving them 30 %.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#775

Post by chadcmulligan »

40four wrote: post #772

Anybody have an idea what the significance of the 7 seven day cutoff is? Can’t imagine this magic number does anything to improve security. Seems kind of arbitrary.

7 days is the side loading limit I think, so they're regarding these apps as sideloaded? Everything has to go through the App Store as a guess?

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#776

Post by ethbro »

edmundsauto wrote: post #738
jamiesonbecker wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to prevent an explosion of garbage and malware that could happen if PWAs really took off? You mean, like the Internet. The App Store is a nice, safe walled garden, like AOL.

This is one of the primary value props of the platform.

Value to whom?

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#777

Post by enos_feedler »

modeless wrote: post #722
madeofpalk wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it's no surprise that Apple would want to impose an "install" step on the web The FUD here is getting out of control. "PWAs", that Google pioneered, are all about having an ‘install step’ to put the "web apps" on your home screen. https://web.dev/customize-install/

No, they are about safely adding capabilities to the web that native apps have. Home screen icons are only one of those capabilities, and not the most important.

PWA is in fact a corporate born, bred and sponsored definition created to push and promote an _arbitrary_ set of Chrome features. It was an attempt to build momentum towards a vision for the web where browsers can run "open" apps. Unfortunately visions don't die, and thus the term lives on. Sigh.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#778

Post by gear54rus »

Silhouette wrote: post #759
gear54rus wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As I see it, their focus is on the user, Oh and let me guess, they know better than me that I don't need this or that. Let them suffocate inside their poisonous wall garden as the web gets richer and richer.

Be careful what you wish for! I don't for an instant believe that Apple's motivations here are purely for their users' benefit, but their actions do at least tend to have some beneficial effect on privacy. Letting them suffocate so Google's spyware-laden ecosystem becomes the only viable way to access the web on mobile devices would not be an improvement.

In my opinion only we ourselves can save ourselves from Google. By using things like AdNauseam and educating everyone and their dog about ad blockers.

I don't think the way to fix ad bullshit is to close down everything, I do think it's in opening everything and educating everyone. That way people actually win, not corps, as it should be.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#779

Post by tomnipotent »

roblabla wrote: post #317
theamk wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big difference is native apps require explicit user content to get installed, while localstorage can be used by any website without user consent. If browsers asked approval before using localstorage, we wouldn’t have this decision.

Apple is actively refusing to implement the standard for installable webapps (PWA). So, Apple is intentionally crippling a feature on the grounds of privacy with no possible remedy. This decision comes from an actor that is protecting their business interests. It might have some positive side-effect for some users, and of course Apple will spin it that way. But in the end Apple is very agressively hampering the web's…

Can you link me to a standard? I checked the W3C, and other than the disparate API's used by PWA's I don't see a "PWA standard" anywhere.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#780

Post by jfkebwjsbx »

jdauriemma wrote: post #748
comex wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried using your app on an iPhone (with Add to Home Screen). - If I press the settings gear, the text on the settings page is about twice as wide as the screen, requiring horizontal scrolling. - On the front page, if I open the color picker, it's partially offscreen. - On all pages, if I do a scroll gesture in the wrong direction, it scrolls the entire UI rather than just the scrollable part. Admittedly, iOS has lo…

There are some fantastic PWAs out there. Twitter is the one I use most regularly. I think one of the reasons we see a lot of less-polished PWAs is that the idea of the PWA appeals to businesses at certain stages. Larger shops can afford to ship native binaries to more than one platform, but a smaller operation can't. PWAs are presumably tempting to those types of product teams: you get multi-platform reach while trul…

Writing for the web and trying to be consistent with native UI is a nightmare. It is not about MVP-stage or not, it is simply not worth it.
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