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Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

andregarzia.com

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Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#721

Post by madeofpalk »

modeless wrote: post #703
wubin wrote: post #483

The source clarifies that this only applies to websites run within the Safari browser.[1] PWAs added to the home screen aren't affected. > As mentioned, the seven-day cap on script-writable storage is gated on "after seven days of Safari use without user interaction on the site." That is the case in Safari. Web applications added to the home screen are not part of Safari and thus have their own counter of days of use…

As the article has been updated to say, "installing" a PWA to the home screen is an optional step that many people prefer not to do in favor of bookmarks or the address bar or the new tab page or whatever. But it's no surprise that Apple would want to impose an "install" step on the web to prevent it from looking more attractive than the App Store.

> But it's no surprise that Apple would want to impose an "install" step on the web

The FUD here is getting out of control. "PWAs", that Google pioneered, are all about having an ‘install step’ to put the "web apps" on your home screen. https://web.dev/customize-install/

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#722

Post by modeless »

madeofpalk wrote: post #721
modeless wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the article has been updated to say, "installing" a PWA to the home screen is an optional step that many people prefer not to do in favor of bookmarks or the address bar or the new tab page or whatever. But it's no surprise that Apple would want to impose an "install" step on the web to prevent it from looking more attractive than the App Store.

> But it's no surprise that Apple would want to impose an "install" step on the web The FUD here is getting out of control. "PWAs", that Google pioneered, are all about having an ‘install step’ to put the "web apps" on your home screen. https://web.dev/customize-install/

No, they are about safely adding capabilities to the web that native apps have. Home screen icons are only one of those capabilities, and not the most important.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#724

Post by tbodt »

diggan wrote: post #106
Veen wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this were true, how would you explain the recent improvements to Safari on the iPad that make it as capable as desktop Safari. Until last year Google Docs did not work in Safari on the iPad. Now it works very well indeed. The same is true of most web apps.

This particular move takes something that is possible in web applications today and makes it not possible in the future (offline capable frontend-only applications), making the gap between native applications and browser applications further, so developers who need to build apps that works offline on iPhone, will only be able to use Apples own technologies for doing so, in a non-cross-platform way. Which in general,…

> Google Docs doesn't really work offline

It actually works quite well offline

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#725

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

The issue would be not that problematic if I could just run a real Firefox browser on iOS, not a skin over Safari, which leads me to a question that puzzles me for a long time.

Why Apple is not facing antitrust charges for not allowing competing browsers on their platform? Microsoft didn't SHIP competing browsers, but allowed them to run just fine on windows, and was fined nonetheless, but Apple somehow gets away with not even allowing competing browsers at all!

I'm not from the US, so maybe I'm missing something about these antitrust lawsuits. Can someone please explain?

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#727

Post by manicdee »

rhizome wrote: post #649
gridlockd wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's confusing. It's not 7 days of non-use , it's seven days of application use without visiting the site. Safari is one application, the homescreen app is a separate application. Presumably, all the alt browsers or WebView apps are separate applications as well. Since you can't use a homescreen app without visiting the site, the 7 days of not visiting the site can't happen.

So this is a requirement that all webapps phone home, moreover that they have a home to phone?

It’s a requirement that some time within the next seven days of app usage, the user interacts with the web app.

This might cause trouble if the web app is simply a list of timers which the user interacts with passively (map of earth showing day/night zones), but if there is any interaction at all the timer resets.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#728

Post by Karunamon »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #725

The issue would be not that problematic if I could just run a real Firefox browser on iOS, not a skin over Safari, which leads me to a question that puzzles me for a long time. Why Apple is not facing antitrust charges for not allowing competing browsers on their platform? Microsoft didn't SHIP competing browsers, but allowed them to run just fine on windows, and was fined nonetheless, but Apple somehow gets away wit…

This is a common misconception.

1. Apple is not a monopoly player in the app market.

2. Microsoft's antitrust fine was for forcing OEMs to not include any competing browsers (Netscape) on threat of losing special pricing.

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#729

Post by [deleted] »

gear54rus wrote: post #188
madeofpalk wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m guessing that Apple will start hindering web apps because the new mouse support in iPadOS is going to be such a boon to web apps. As a web developer , I've never believed Apple has hindered web development on their platform, purposefully or not. They just don't spend their resources adding in WebBluetooth or whatever new API-of-the-day Google has decided to come up with. As I see it, their focus is on the user…

> As I see it, their focus is on the user, Oh and let me guess, they know better than me that I don't need this or that. Let them suffocate inside their poisonous wall garden as the web gets richer and richer.

[deleted]

Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible

#730

Post by kstrauser »

osrec wrote: post #512
wubin wrote: post #483

The source clarifies that this only applies to websites run within the Safari browser.[1] PWAs added to the home screen aren't affected. > As mentioned, the seven-day cap on script-writable storage is gated on "after seven days of Safari use without user interaction on the site." That is the case in Safari. Web applications added to the home screen are not part of Safari and thus have their own counter of days of use…

That's a relief. We've built our business on our PWA, which also has an offline mode. It would be annoying if we had to adjust it for (yet another) Safari quirk.

Except that by "Safari quirk" you mean "the way that all common browsers are heading".

Safari is the first here. Firefox is certain to be right behind them. Google, probably not, but I bet Edge does the same thing before too long.

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