CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come • Hacker News Board

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#271

Post by throwaway122378 » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 4:46 AM UTC

funcDropShadow wrote: post #143

throwaway122378 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s your point? The WHO lost all credibility. As late as January 14, 2020 the WHO tweeted that there is NO evidence of human to human transmission of covid-19 https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152?s=20

There is huge difference between "no evidence of human to human transmission" and "evidence of no human to human transmission". The former means, we don't know yet. You can blame them for not knowing. But admitting that was right. And when they knew, they told everyone. At least in this instance, they haven't lost any credibility. On the contrary, it shows integrity to admit your limits of knowledge.

They knew it all by Jan 23rd

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#272

Post by xster » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 4:53 AM UTC

omgwtfbyobbq wrote: post #192

JDulin wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These problems are not due to an "administration". The rot of American institutions is deep. The competence and coherence of the entire American civil service and civil life has fallen precipitously in the last 20 years, and, in part because of their irrational fixation on this administration, people still cannot wrap theirs head around the fact that problem is in personnel and structure. The CDC botched the developm…

There may be structural problems, but the current administration contributed significantly the poor response to this epidemic. Had they kept existing infrastructure and people in place, things could have gone significantly better. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-... https://blog.ucsusa.org/anita-desikan/trump-administration-h...

Rather, the previous administration was just more successful bringing the full weight of the media machine on turning down news of the previous H1N1 pandemic which had 2 orders of magnitudes more cases and deaths so far. https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-compared-to-sars...

This current pandemic just happened to have happened outside the US so it couldn't keep the lid on the news.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#273

Post by acqq » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 4:53 AM UTC

eric_cc wrote: post #227

acqq wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The context matters: https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trumps-statements-about-th... "Feb. 26: “And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero , that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.” — Trump at a press conference." "Feb. 27: “ It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.” — Trump at a White House meeting with African American…

Wait are you really blaming Trump because he made stupid comments?

I'm surely don't believe that he is some exception, i.e. that he was the only one being stupid. As I see it, the presidents (and the prime ministers) represent the sentiment of the system, the power structures and the voters.

The system he and his equivalents across the world represent is based on the premises that it's totally expected to plan spending 1.5 trillion for a single plane, but that preparing for the next epidemics is something not worth doing. To quote why there are already not more resources allocated in, for example, being prepared to produce more vaccines or contain the epidemics before it spreads:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-long-will-it-ta...

"there may never be a market for a vaccine at the end of the development process, because the epidemic is contained, or never comes to pass. Then, traditionally, if there is an epidemic, it may take hold in a developing country where the costs of research and development cannot be recouped. “The resources and expertise sit in biotech and pharma, and they’ve got their business model,” Grant said. “They’re not charities. They can’t do this stuff for free.”"

The brokenness of the system that results in all that: the 1.5 trillion plane and maintaining the force and the technology to destruct the whole world on a minute notice, but at the same time not being ready to invest in health preparedness because

"it may take hold in a developing country where the costs of research and development cannot be recouped"

is way beyond stupid. The system which intentionally does nothing to prevent the demise of the world, just because some people expect to profit every time the danger occurs. The same people obviously profit every time a 1.5 trillion dollar plane is being made.

Also as I understand US sets the tone for Europe:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/03/eurofighter_nao_ana...

A big part of the world does the same stupidities.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#274

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 4:55 AM UTC

Reedx wrote: post #251

JDulin wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These problems are not due to an "administration". The rot of American institutions is deep. The competence and coherence of the entire American civil service and civil life has fallen precipitously in the last 20 years, and, in part because of their irrational fixation on this administration, people still cannot wrap theirs head around the fact that problem is in personnel and structure. The CDC botched the developm…

People want a simple, tidy villain and hero story. As though everything would suddenly be solved if only their hero of choice vanquished the villain. Unfortunately, as you point out, the real problem is institutional decay. A recent article summed this up pretty well: "Such a mobilization failure is never an individual's fault. Rather, it reveals a hollow state. In the alphabet soup of federal agencies, there is no o…

[deleted]

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#275

Post by mennis16 » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 4:57 AM UTC

jMyles wrote: post #253

mercutio2 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, there's a sizable denominator problem. That people misunderstand what CFR is is a problem, too. If we want to know how lethal the virus is, we need sampling of who actually has contracted it, which is tough in the early stages of a pandemic.

> If we want to know how lethal the virus is, we need sampling of who actually has contracted it, which is tough in the early stages of a pandemic. But several studies have done the best job possible, given different pieces of the dataset, to arrive at a more accurate IFR (see the links in the above content). I haven't seen anybody, in any published paper, defend the 3.4% as a likely indicator of the actual fatality…

Because it becomes 10x or so more deadly when proper care is not available, as is happening in areas where too many people have it at once. Letting this run wild would cripple hospitals. Many NYC area hospitals are already out of ventilators and that situation is just ramping up.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#276

Post by fzeroracer » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 5:10 AM UTC

meddlepal wrote: post #186

JDulin wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These problems are not due to an "administration". The rot of American institutions is deep. The competence and coherence of the entire American civil service and civil life has fallen precipitously in the last 20 years, and, in part because of their irrational fixation on this administration, people still cannot wrap theirs head around the fact that problem is in personnel and structure. The CDC botched the developm…

This so much. The system is absolutely corrupt and broken to the core. Poor leadership exacerbates the problem but it is not the fault of poor leadership. We've merely been coping with the horrible brokenness of our system for decades.

I see posts like this quite a bit, seemingly as a defense of the administration which is known for pushing deep cuts in various institutions, bungling messaging and/or outright lying about the state of affairs, among a litany of other issues which are exceedingly well documented.

If we were to treat the US as a business (as the President would want, apparently), poor leadership is the reason why we're going bankrupt both economically and socially. His actions are akin to cutting the QA department across your various software teams because 'their duties are redundant and can just be done by the developers instead', then encountering a crippling bug that could've been fixed by having QA at inception.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#277

Post by Juxtapoz » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 5:38 AM UTC

xster wrote: post #272

omgwtfbyobbq wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There may be structural problems, but the current administration contributed significantly the poor response to this epidemic. Had they kept existing infrastructure and people in place, things could have gone significantly better. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-... https://blog.ucsusa.org/anita-desikan/trump-administration-h...

Rather, the previous administration was just more successful bringing the full weight of the media machine on turning down news of the previous H1N1 pandemic which had 2 orders of magnitudes more cases and deaths so far. https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-compared-to-sars... This current pandemic just happened to have happened outside the US so it couldn't keep the lid on the news.

According to your source

> The coronavirus outbreak is more severe than the 2009 outbreak of H1N1, or swine flu. That illness infected between 700 million and 1.4 billion people worldwide but only had a mortality rate of 0.02%.

1.4 billion worldwide, not just in the United States.

The mortality rate is much worse for coronavirus and it hasn't been around since 2009 so we've yet to see how many cases and deaths occur.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#278

Post by processing » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 5:42 AM UTC

belltaco wrote: post #180

processing wrote: post #110

Getting the test was difficult enough here in California. A bigger problem that isn't being discussed is the delay to get the results. I had a test 10-days ago and still do not have results. Obviously, still self-isolating. The local health county department have taken over issuing the results. Yesterday, after multiple calls they told me to call the hospital as they don't have an answer. Was able to contact someone…

Heard a report of a test getting "lost". https://thebatesstudent.com/2020/03/23/jack-allard-16-is-in-...

What a nightmare for him and his family. Hope he pulls through.

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#279

Post by ganeshkrishnan » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 5:51 AM UTC

Juxtapoz wrote: post #277

xster wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather, the previous administration was just more successful bringing the full weight of the media machine on turning down news of the previous H1N1 pandemic which had 2 orders of magnitudes more cases and deaths so far. https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-compared-to-sars... This current pandemic just happened to have happened outside the US so it couldn't keep the lid on the news.

According to your source > The coronavirus outbreak is more severe than the 2009 outbreak of H1N1, or swine flu. That illness infected between 700 million and 1.4 billion people worldwide but only had a mortality rate of 0.02%. 1.4 billion worldwide, not just in the United States. The mortality rate is much worse for coronavirus and it hasn't been around since 2009 so we've yet to see how many cases and deaths occur.

Just an FYI: the mortality rate of swine flu is based on estimate of total people infected (around 60 million cdc estimate) while the mortality rate of covid is from confirmed cases as we don't have estimates of total infection with some speculating that it's 10x of confirmed cases

Re: CDC coronavirus testing decision likely to haunt nation for months to come

#280

Post by xbmcuser » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 5:54 AM UTC

meddlepal wrote: post #186

JDulin wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These problems are not due to an "administration". The rot of American institutions is deep. The competence and coherence of the entire American civil service and civil life has fallen precipitously in the last 20 years, and, in part because of their irrational fixation on this administration, people still cannot wrap theirs head around the fact that problem is in personnel and structure. The CDC botched the developm…

This so much. The system is absolutely corrupt and broken to the core. Poor leadership exacerbates the problem but it is not the fault of poor leadership. We've merely been coping with the horrible brokenness of our system for decades.

It largely the fault of the current leadership as well as the political party in power. In last 20 years they have destroyed institutions when in power and stopped the other political party to revive them when they were not in power. All the government lockdowns and blocks when Obama/Democratic party wanted to spend money on healthcare are there to see. Though Democrats are not blameless nor is the American public for allowing this to happen.