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Jianruiying, the Special Forces of the Qing Dynasty

mandarinmansion.com

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Re: Jianruiying, the Special Forces of the Qing Dynasty

#21

Post by [deleted] »

jacobush wrote: post #18
hangonhn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's not a problem unique to China. Historically people from stronger/wealthier nations have underestimated others in poorer nations, especially when the poorer country is on the defense. Mongols vs. Vietnam, UK vs. Maori, Japan vs. China (China took a beating but Japan thought they can win the war in 4 months and China's strategy did win out in the end at great cost.), Chinese nationalist vs. Chinese communist…

Everyone else vs someone else in Afghanistan...

[deleted]

Re: Jianruiying, the Special Forces of the Qing Dynasty

#22

Post by 7thaccount »

credit_guy wrote: post #5
saagarjha wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curved swords are quite common in Persian, Indian, Chinese, and Japanese cultures. They're not exclusively Chinese.

I guess the OP meant this hook sword https://www.mandarinmansion.com/item/chinese-hook-sword It does have a strange shape, and indeed I don't think I saw anything similar in other cultures.

Yes, I'm well aware that curved swords are common (scimitar, calvary saber, katana, wakizashi...etc), but that hook sword is just out there.

Re: Jianruiying, the Special Forces of the Qing Dynasty

#23

Post by justaguyhere »

hangonhn wrote: post #16
ilamont wrote: post #15

What was expected to become a quick and decisive victory for the otherwise highly effective Qing army, ended in a stalemate. This was a constant theme throughout Chinese dynastic history -- leaders at the provincial or national level underestimating the military capabilities of tribal peoples/"barbarians," rebels, and smaller tributary states. The preceding Ming dynasty is littered with similar examples involving Jap…

But that's not a problem unique to China. Historically people from stronger/wealthier nations have underestimated others in poorer nations, especially when the poorer country is on the defense. Mongols vs. Vietnam, UK vs. Maori, Japan vs. China (China took a beating but Japan thought they can win the war in 4 months and China's strategy did win out in the end at great cost.), Chinese nationalist vs. Chinese communist…

Sivaji's raiding attacks are also a good example. His army was a very small group of horsemen (at least in the beginning), but was very, very effective in being a major headache to Mughals and others

Re: Jianruiying, the Special Forces of the Qing Dynasty

#24

Post by blarg1 »

jacobush wrote: post #18
hangonhn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's not a problem unique to China. Historically people from stronger/wealthier nations have underestimated others in poorer nations, especially when the poorer country is on the defense. Mongols vs. Vietnam, UK vs. Maori, Japan vs. China (China took a beating but Japan thought they can win the war in 4 months and China's strategy did win out in the end at great cost.), Chinese nationalist vs. Chinese communist…

Everyone else vs someone else in Afghanistan...

Chinese actually fought there and won at one point.

Re: Jianruiying, the Special Forces of the Qing Dynasty

#25

Post by ksec »

ilamont wrote: post #15

What was expected to become a quick and decisive victory for the otherwise highly effective Qing army, ended in a stalemate. This was a constant theme throughout Chinese dynastic history -- leaders at the provincial or national level underestimating the military capabilities of tribal peoples/"barbarians," rebels, and smaller tributary states. The preceding Ming dynasty is littered with similar examples involving Jap…

>I don't believe the Ming ever trained a distinct/elite group of special forces as described in TFA

Embroidered Uniform Guard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embroidered_Uniform_Guard

Re: Jianruiying, the Special Forces of the Qing Dynasty

#26

Post by swampthing »

hangonhn wrote: post #16
ilamont wrote: post #15

What was expected to become a quick and decisive victory for the otherwise highly effective Qing army, ended in a stalemate. This was a constant theme throughout Chinese dynastic history -- leaders at the provincial or national level underestimating the military capabilities of tribal peoples/"barbarians," rebels, and smaller tributary states. The preceding Ming dynasty is littered with similar examples involving Jap…

But that's not a problem unique to China. Historically people from stronger/wealthier nations have underestimated others in poorer nations, especially when the poorer country is on the defense. Mongols vs. Vietnam, UK vs. Maori, Japan vs. China (China took a beating but Japan thought they can win the war in 4 months and China's strategy did win out in the end at great cost.), Chinese nationalist vs. Chinese communist…

Japan versus China? Do people really consider China to have won that one? I always thought they mostly made it out due to the US defeating Japan.

Re: Jianruiying, the Special Forces of the Qing Dynasty

#27

Post by 7thaccount »

saagarjha wrote: post #9
credit_guy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the OP meant this hook sword https://www.mandarinmansion.com/item/chinese-hook-sword It does have a strange shape, and indeed I don't think I saw anything similar in other cultures.

Ah, that makes more sense. I was looking for a sword "near the bottom" of the article itself and saw just the curved sword; the hook sword was past the end.

Ah, I shouldn't been more descriptive lol

Re: Jianruiying, the Special Forces of the Qing Dynasty

#28

Post by 7thaccount »

chewxy wrote: post #20
credit_guy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the OP meant this hook sword https://www.mandarinmansion.com/item/chinese-hook-sword It does have a strange shape, and indeed I don't think I saw anything similar in other cultures.

This looks like a pre-Bat'leth.

I think Worf does have some smaller versions of these in an episode (one for each hand).

Re: Jianruiying, the Special Forces of the Qing Dynasty

#29

Post by yorwba »

swampthing wrote: post #26
hangonhn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's not a problem unique to China. Historically people from stronger/wealthier nations have underestimated others in poorer nations, especially when the poorer country is on the defense. Mongols vs. Vietnam, UK vs. Maori, Japan vs. China (China took a beating but Japan thought they can win the war in 4 months and China's strategy did win out in the end at great cost.), Chinese nationalist vs. Chinese communist…

Japan versus China? Do people really consider China to have won that one? I always thought they mostly made it out due to the US defeating Japan.

China was not yet defeated and was slowly retaking territory, but of course Japan's unconditional surrender made everything much easier. HistoryLapse has a pretty good article on that last stage of the Second Sino-Japanese War: https://en.historylapse.org/japan%27s-defeat-in-the-second-s...

Re: Jianruiying, the Special Forces of the Qing Dynasty

#30

Post by depeterdekker »

boudewijnrempt wrote: post #10
g8oz wrote: post #8

The article says the emperor compared his soldiers to the Solon cavalry. Does anyone know who/what that refers to? A quick Google search did not turn up anything.

From internal evidence from the article, they were also a people inside the Chinese empire. Nothing to do with the Greek Solon :-)

Yes, the Solon were a subtribe of what were later called "Manchu". It is quite notable that while most tribes started to fall under the Manchu identity at some point, the Solon were often mentioned separately.

They first resisted Qing empire-building fiercely, but once subjugated made some of the best warriors of the Qing. They were even feared still in the 1860s by the Taipings, in a time when most of the Qing army had become a caricature of itself.

By the time the Qing fell, all Solon, Chinese, Korean, Russian, Mongolian, Hui and Manchu Bannermen were classified as "Manchu" and by now they are probably truly sinicized.

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