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Don’t bail out the cruise industry

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Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#131

Post by Sholmesy »

busterarm wrote: post #20
xiphias2 wrote: post #12

Tourists from cruise ships destroy nice vacactions. Many hundreds of people come on the streets in groups, go throught the streets loudly and fast to take photos, than go back to the ship. People who really go to these places and spend money for staying and try to blend in to have a peaceful vacation can't.

And municipalities let them come because volume, volume, volume. Those tourist destinations cater to them more than they cater to you.

This isn't true, specifically of places like Venice, where they are actively trying to curtail cruise ship traffic.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#132

Post by c22 »

lmm wrote: post #104
alkonaut wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yours is an argument against tourism. Sure a lot of people dislike tourism but it’s a major source of income in many places where there are few other industries. When people pay local businesses then at least money stays where they are spent, helping locals who don’t work in the tourist industry by providing funding for services etc. Thats why hotels and restaurants are a good way to spend money. Cruise tourism usual…

I believe in the greatest happiness of the greatest number, so I'm in favour of making sure as many people as possible get to experience these places - Venice, Everest, Jamaica, wherever people want to go - with the minimum disruption to others. Cruises seem like the best way to minimise the per-person "footprint" of visiting a place - just as container ships are the most efficient way of transporting goods.

I went on a Caribbean cruise once (the trip was bought for me, I would never have paid for it). The thing I found most striking was the same-ness of every stop. We stopped in Jamaica, but it felt the same as every single other stop: Busy "shopping area" right near the cruise terminal, with many of the exact same stores as the last stop. A variety of the same tired cruise-approved "activities" ("touch a dolphin", "ride a zipline through the forest", "snorkel adventure!") available with just a 1-2 hour cramped bus ride. And, in my experience, not enough time at each stop to actually see much or any of the place we'd landed. The boat stopped in Belize, so I guess I can stick that pin up on my big world-map. Except the "island" we stopped at was wholly-owned by the cruise line and we were only there for four hours, so we mostly gained the experience of buying the same overpriced drinks they had available on the boat, but out of a coconut.

I disagree that cruises are an effective way to visit a place at all, let alone on a low footprint.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#133

Post by xiphias2 »

lmm wrote: post #59
alkonaut wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Few people fly in and flood the streets of tourist hotspot cities for just a couple of hours and then disappear again without spending any money on hotels, and often not even restaurants. You can do that as a plane tourist too, but it's far less common. As soon as you stay even one night you are NOT like cruise tourists. You probably had at least one dinner and one hotel stay. Good tourist.

Why are the hotels a worthy way to spend the money? They push up the house prices for those who actually live there. Someone who isn't taking up a bed that a local could sleep in is being a better tourist IMO.

If you look at Santorini for example, all of the revenue of locals is from tourism. Actually many of the people don't have jobs during winter, so they have to close the restaurants and the hotels when they are out of season.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#134

Post by busterarm »

Sholmesy wrote: post #131
busterarm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And municipalities let them come because volume, volume, volume. Those tourist destinations cater to them more than they cater to you.

This isn't true, specifically of places like Venice, where they are actively trying to curtail cruise ship traffic.

Some.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#135

Post by nemo44x »

UweSchmidt wrote: post #31

A market based solution would be investors buying struggling companies at a discount, or companies using their reserves that they have built based on normal risk management. Bailout money should be used to help people during unemployment.

I mainly agree with this. Companies living paycheck to paycheck should sell equity. The US government should set aside money to buy into these new equity offerings.

For non-public and small business there can be funds set aside to help them.

And then yes, simply increase unemployment distributions for the time bring to 80% previous income for a couple months.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#136

Post by _0w8t »

ftvy wrote: post #121
bradleyjg wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The demand for cruises is not going to go away. In that case why the need for a bailout? If they are viable businesses either as is or after reorganization in bankruptcy, then what’s the issue that needs solving by the government? That the very rich owners and lenders lost money and wish they hadn’t?

You could say the same thing about airlines, but no one is arguing about whether airlines are a necessary component of the economy. I don't support a bailout for cruise lines, but I also don't support a bailout for airlines or any industry. This pandemic crisis is being exploited on all fronts, and the first thing that everyone is going for is money. There is a lot of FUD being spread around as cause to bailout speci…

Like a saying, don't bail out corporations so shareholders learn. Bail out people so they can can quickly start new businesses.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#138

Post by kkdaemas »

mynameishere wrote: post #37

Man, I hate how people have all kinds of "reasons" why industry X shouldn't be bailed out. Uh, no. Nobody should be bailed out, as a general principle.

This is a very short sighted view. Police forces cannot maintain order in the event of massive unrest and the best way to prevent this is to keep people above the poverty line and the death rates low. Desperation leads to upheaval.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#140

Post by timwaagh »

If you guys are handing out bailouts I'd like one too. I don't pay any taxes in the US and I don't do anything particularly useful. I can guarantee that absolutely zero US jobs will be saved by bailing me out. I am not bankrupt and I don't need the money. I think I'd therefore be an excellent candidate to receive a bailout. Let's say five billion should be sufficient.
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