Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Don’t bail out the cruise industry

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 205 posts

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#101

Post by CaptArmchair »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #87
joshvm wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's the opposite. Places which are already at capacity (like Venice, Mallorca, Santorini, etc) then receive multiple cruise ships a day which dump thousands more people into the system. There are cruises which are "just looking" but the ones which visit heavily touristic areas tend to stop and let passengers off. Also these ships are enormous , loud and polluting. I think most locals would prefer hotels which at…

You shouldn't be downvoted for high quality posts like this. You're absolutely right that most locals would prefer hotels - the economic contributions alone answer for the externalities that the OP was concerned about.

As a local living in such a hotspot: this exactly is a concern our municipal council is trying to balance.

Cruise ships unload hordes of tourists who are then shepherded through the commercial center of town for a couple of hours. You'd think that's a good thing. It's not.

They don't go to restaurants for a full meal, they don't visit venues or do any activities. It's literally drop 'n shop. Meanwhile, they crowd the streets, not to mention the surplus of garbage. Commercial activity changes to low quality souvenir shops and fast food.

Local economy earns very little, but the costs of having them are very much for the locals.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#102

Post by amelius »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #47
edejong wrote: post #14

The cruise industry is one of the most polluting and damaging industries in the world. It ruins cities worldwide. Their ships are petri-dishes for disease, spreading it directly into our vital cities. They are blocking perfect vistas of the sea. They are ruining local sea life and are spreading non-native species. Their exhaust fumes are extremely detrimental to local air quality in cities. The swarms of tourists are…

They're likely not going to go bust though; they have a fuckton of money, at worst the ships are going to be docked for a while until this blows over. They won't make money, but they're not going to go bust. I think this is a major problem with a lot of businesses; they consider time not spent earning money as loss, instead of just a period with less income. And I think it's the responsibility of ALL businesses to ke…

> I think this is a major problem with a lot of businesses; they consider time not spent earning money as loss, instead of just a period with less income.

It depends if you still have expenses, like e.g. rent.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#104

Post by lmm »

alkonaut wrote: post #96
lmm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are the hotels a worthy way to spend the money? They push up the house prices for those who actually live there. Someone who isn't taking up a bed that a local could sleep in is being a better tourist IMO.

Yours is an argument against tourism. Sure a lot of people dislike tourism but it’s a major source of income in many places where there are few other industries. When people pay local businesses then at least money stays where they are spent, helping locals who don’t work in the tourist industry by providing funding for services etc. Thats why hotels and restaurants are a good way to spend money. Cruise tourism usual…

I believe in the greatest happiness of the greatest number, so I'm in favour of making sure as many people as possible get to experience these places - Venice, Everest, Jamaica, wherever people want to go - with the minimum disruption to others. Cruises seem like the best way to minimise the per-person "footprint" of visiting a place - just as container ships are the most efficient way of transporting goods.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#105

Post by dirtyid »

ransom1538 wrote: post #56
ummwhat wrote: post #24

Better idea. They want a bailout? Sure. Turn all your ships to hospital ships for the next year. You won't miss them anyway. One of these ships is basically a 10 floor high city block that can sustain itself off grid for over two weeks. Surely we have a good use for that.

"Turn all your ships to hospital ships" Dear God no. Please don't create a covid19 death ship. Covid19 has proven to be a ruthless killer on recycled air systems. It would be impossible to screen for the virus - it would certainly find it's way on board.

Many medical procedures have been pushed back, a bunch of surgeons twiddling their thumbs somewhere. Might be useful to have them operate out of retrofitted cruise medical ships.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#106

Post by OscarCunningham »

echelon wrote: post #78

I had a thought earlier today that might fix the economic situation, but it's extremely bold. If the world congregates and places blame on the CCP for asking us to keep our borders open while knowing all along how contagious and deadly this virus was, that's criminally negligent. Maybe even malicious. The behavior of the CCP after the virus spread internationally is equally alarming. They threatened to shut off acces…

How much of the US debt owned by China is held by the Chinese government rather than Chinese citizens?

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#107

Post by lmm »

joshvm wrote: post #72
lmm wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are blocking perfect vistas of the sea. Counterpoint: they absorb a lot of tourist demand for visiting particular places, while taking up a minimum of space. Building the equivalent hotel capacity in the same places would be far more intrusive.

No, it's the opposite. Places which are already at capacity (like Venice, Mallorca, Santorini, etc) then receive multiple cruise ships a day which dump thousands more people into the system. There are cruises which are "just looking" but the ones which visit heavily touristic areas tend to stop and let passengers off. Also these ships are enormous , loud and polluting. I think most locals would prefer hotels which at…

> No, it's the opposite. Places which are already at capacity (like Venice, Mallorca, Santorini, etc) then receive multiple cruise ships a day which dump thousands more people into the system.

Right, so if the cruises weren't there they would look to increase that "capacity" to accommodate that demand - which would likely mean building giant hotels.

> I think most locals would prefer hotels which at least contribute to the economy.

The kind of person who wants a cruise would probably favour a resort-style hotel, so it would be the same thing in terms of not eating at local restaurants, crowding into the same places, and the like. Hotels provide some employment but not particularly high quality employment (it's mostly precarious minimum wage jobs, no?), and meanwhile their existence pushes up land/building prices. Hotels might pay direct taxes, but cruise ships can be made to do the same.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#108

Post by [deleted] »

ornornor wrote: post #82
toyg wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These days it’s basically impossible to “ethically” eat anything , unless you have your own patch of land and can be bothered to grow vegetables.

It beats doing nothing. Vegetables are harder to avoid eating at all, but fish? You can totally do without eating any ever again and be fine. And almost all salt you can buy in stores has iode added so you won’t miss that nutrient.

[deleted]

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#109

Post by [deleted] »

hannob wrote: post #69

I think there should be a much bigger discussion about bailouts. There currently seems to be a feeling that an industry that struggles deserves a bailout by default. Why don't we have a discussion about which industry provides important services to society? And particularly how helpful it is likely to be in the larger crisis we have looming over us - climate change - and which won't go away? It seems like the absolut…

[deleted]

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#110

Post by jsilence »

toyg wrote: post #70
ornornor wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also forget to mention the magic pipes that let ships dump water polluted with oil directly into the sea so they don’t have to pay at ports for proper disposal. Outlaw ocean is an eye opening book (and a great read) about how lawless the sea is, how slavery is still very very real out there, and how it’s virtually impossible to keep eating fish once you know what’s going on (both in terms of human trafficking and…

These days it’s basically impossible to “ethically” eat anything , unless you have your own patch of land and can be bothered to grow vegetables.

Not entirely true. Buy produce from your local organic farmer at the farmers market and you'll probably be fine ethically.
Post reply on HN