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Don’t bail out the cruise industry

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Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#81

Post by Reason077 »

lb1lf wrote: post #38
Bnshsysjab wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve always been curious about that, why do cruise ships always get hit with gastro? I rarely hear about it but when I do it’s on a cruise ship.

-Thousands of passengers from all over the world, (comparatively) cramped quarters, HVAC systems push air from cabin to cabin without sterilisation, buffets where hundreds handle the same serving utensils...

> "HVAC systems push air from cabin to cabin without sterilisation"

I suspect this is actually a bigger part of it than people realise.

I've been in very modern hotels that clearly had issues with their HVAC design as smells (bathroom smells... yuck!) from other rooms infiltrated through the ventilation ducts. I imagine this issue could be worse in a cruise ship given the small size of the cabins.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#82

Post by ornornor »

toyg wrote: post #70
ornornor wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also forget to mention the magic pipes that let ships dump water polluted with oil directly into the sea so they don’t have to pay at ports for proper disposal. Outlaw ocean is an eye opening book (and a great read) about how lawless the sea is, how slavery is still very very real out there, and how it’s virtually impossible to keep eating fish once you know what’s going on (both in terms of human trafficking and…

These days it’s basically impossible to “ethically” eat anything , unless you have your own patch of land and can be bothered to grow vegetables.

It beats doing nothing. Vegetables are harder to avoid eating at all, but fish? You can totally do without eating any ever again and be fine. And almost all salt you can buy in stores has iode added so you won’t miss that nutrient.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#84

Post by amelius »

lmm wrote: post #54
edejong wrote: post #14

The cruise industry is one of the most polluting and damaging industries in the world. It ruins cities worldwide. Their ships are petri-dishes for disease, spreading it directly into our vital cities. They are blocking perfect vistas of the sea. They are ruining local sea life and are spreading non-native species. Their exhaust fumes are extremely detrimental to local air quality in cities. The swarms of tourists are…

> They are blocking perfect vistas of the sea. Counterpoint: they absorb a lot of tourist demand for visiting particular places, while taking up a minimum of space. Building the equivalent hotel capacity in the same places would be far more intrusive.

That's only a net positive if you think that more tourism (which is a form of consumerism) is always a good thing.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#85

Post by OJFord »

echelon wrote: post #78

I had a thought earlier today that might fix the economic situation, but it's extremely bold. If the world congregates and places blame on the CCP for asking us to keep our borders open while knowing all along how contagious and deadly this virus was, that's criminally negligent. Maybe even malicious. The behavior of the CCP after the virus spread internationally is equally alarming. They threatened to shut off acces…

Assuming you don't want to start a war, it relies on them not 'protesting' too much.

It also relies on not needing to borrow again in the foreseable future, and probably not on good terms when you do (decades down the line).

Trying to arrange 'every nation collectively' doing so sounds like a risky exercise in getting everybody to agree to your plan, and not side with China instead and make your (and anybody who did agree's) situation even worse.

Strictly worse than just firing up the printers, IMO.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#86

Post by sjg007 »

aguyfromnb wrote: post #65
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're likely not going to go bust though; they have a fuckton of money, at worst the ships are going to be docked for a while until this blows over. They won't make money, but they're not going to go bust. I think this is a major problem with a lot of businesses; they consider time not spent earning money as loss, instead of just a period with less income. And I think it's the responsibility of ALL businesses to ke…

> They're likely not going to go bust though; they have a fuckton of money, at worst the ships are going to be docked for a while until this blows over. Why do people get this impression a pandemic, combined with an unprecedented economic drawdown, combined with one of the most vitriolic political climates we've ever seen is just going to "blow over", and in 6 months we'll be going along like nothing ever happened? C…

Cruise lines can borrow money at rock bottom interest rates. We do not need to bail them out. They don't even pay US taxes.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#87

Post by Der_Einzige »

joshvm wrote: post #72
lmm wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are blocking perfect vistas of the sea. Counterpoint: they absorb a lot of tourist demand for visiting particular places, while taking up a minimum of space. Building the equivalent hotel capacity in the same places would be far more intrusive.

No, it's the opposite. Places which are already at capacity (like Venice, Mallorca, Santorini, etc) then receive multiple cruise ships a day which dump thousands more people into the system. There are cruises which are "just looking" but the ones which visit heavily touristic areas tend to stop and let passengers off. Also these ships are enormous , loud and polluting. I think most locals would prefer hotels which at…

You shouldn't be downvoted for high quality posts like this.

You're absolutely right that most locals would prefer hotels - the economic contributions alone answer for the externalities that the OP was concerned about.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#89

Post by dredmorbius »

ransom1538 wrote: post #56
ummwhat wrote: post #24

Better idea. They want a bailout? Sure. Turn all your ships to hospital ships for the next year. You won't miss them anyway. One of these ships is basically a 10 floor high city block that can sustain itself off grid for over two weeks. Surely we have a good use for that.

"Turn all your ships to hospital ships" Dear God no. Please don't create a covid19 death ship. Covid19 has proven to be a ruthless killer on recycled air systems. It would be impossible to screen for the virus - it would certainly find it's way on board.

There are numerous non-covid medical conditions which could benefit.

Though whether or not recreational cruise ships could be reasonably repurposed, and staffed, in time is a bit of a stretch.

Re: Don’t bail out the cruise industry

#90

Post by sjg007 »

ransom1538 wrote: post #56
ummwhat wrote: post #24

Better idea. They want a bailout? Sure. Turn all your ships to hospital ships for the next year. You won't miss them anyway. One of these ships is basically a 10 floor high city block that can sustain itself off grid for over two weeks. Surely we have a good use for that.

"Turn all your ships to hospital ships" Dear God no. Please don't create a covid19 death ship. Covid19 has proven to be a ruthless killer on recycled air systems. It would be impossible to screen for the virus - it would certainly find it's way on board.

The army core of engineers would have to heavily modify them. We do have hospital ships. I am not sure it'd be possible though to get negative pressure in the HVAC.. maybe.
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