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Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

reuters.com

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Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#101
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It not only could but it saves lives, I'm not disputing that. But the question is at what cost to the individual, the society, the economy and their future. What happens if the economy crashes? Is it reasonable and the price worth paying? We should be allowed to not only ask these questions but discuss them.

If you want to ask those questions, you also need to ask what's the alternative. What happens if we continue business as usual and 5% of the population dies in a couple months? What if the virus mutates and another 5% die in the next couple months after that? What if immunity only lasts for half a year, and we get a 5% death rate every year from now on? Is it reasonable and the price worth paying?

Where are you getting the 5% from? You're just adding the 5% on and on prior to "What if's" that don't sound plausible to me. Although if you did quote experts there I would like to know, that could change my view. To my current knowledge it is more and more looking like its fatality rate is sitting around 1%. People, especially older ones, die, we often supress that thought in the western culture. And many die, everyday. If the economy crashes many more will die most certainly.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#102
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...except that, in said dark ages, that got people executed for treason or witchcraft or what have you. Here, it could very well save lives. Many democratic governments have tried voluntary restrictions - some people are complying, but others don't seem to care. What else is there but to enforce those restrictions via previously existing channels (e.g. Quarantine Act in Canada)? IMHO, this is similar to reporting som…

It not only could but it saves lives, I'm not disputing that. But the question is at what cost to the individual, the society, the economy and their future. What happens if the economy crashes? Is it reasonable and the price worth paying? We should be allowed to not only ask these questions but discuss them.

A crashed economy is not the end of the world.

We'll live, for the most part. There will be ups and downs and yes some people will suffer and die from the economy.

It was a shit economy anyway, unless you were one of the lucky ones. Most people had a stressful, shitty time of it.

In comparison, a few % of the entire population of Earth dying unnecessarily because the hospitals couldn't treat them all at once seems a much bigger deal. How about we get excited about preventing that. That seems like Something Worth Doing.

> We should be allowed to not only ask these questions but discuss them.

Yes of course, and people are. But surely it is fairly obvious that we have a fast time-based emergency in progress, and also one that is most effectively controlled by a coordinated response; both rule out having drawn-out big social discussions and debates before starting to act.

There may be a major econonomic depression, numerically larger than the Great Depression in statistics. Technically. There will also be quite a lot of economic hardship caused by the deaths and disability caused. But much less of that than if the draconian quarantine measures were not done!

I for one do not believe it will last the way the Great Depression did, even if it proves technically larger in numbers. Because we are witnessing one of the greatest mass cooperation and social transformation events in human history right now, worldwide too, in the fight against the new disease. I'm talking about the cooperation and volunteerismm, and that very rare spirit that comes from humans all over the world realising we're fighting the same thing for once. I believe we will carry that spirit on in the economic aftermath and will rebuild in remarkable ways, very different from the 1930s. I hope to live through the pandemic to see the transformation that follows, and to help make it happen.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#103
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It not only could but it saves lives, I'm not disputing that. But the question is at what cost to the individual, the society, the economy and their future. What happens if the economy crashes? Is it reasonable and the price worth paying? We should be allowed to not only ask these questions but discuss them.

If you want to ask those questions, you also need to ask what's the alternative. What happens if we continue business as usual and 5% of the population dies in a couple months? What if the virus mutates and another 5% die in the next couple months after that? What if immunity only lasts for half a year, and we get a 5% death rate every year from now on? Is it reasonable and the price worth paying?

[deleted]

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#104
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When someone threatens my life, I'm either going to call the cops, or try to kill them in self defense. Even if they're threatening someone else's life, you could still get away with killing them.

That fear and panic really got you it seems. Should we kill other people for infecting others with the seasonal flu virus as well, which also costs many lives per year? If you are endangered it is up to YOU to stay safe not the other way around. Do you know how many people die of car accidents? Should we kill all drivers just because they are potentially threatning someone elses life?

[flagged]

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#105
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to ask those questions, you also need to ask what's the alternative. What happens if we continue business as usual and 5% of the population dies in a couple months? What if the virus mutates and another 5% die in the next couple months after that? What if immunity only lasts for half a year, and we get a 5% death rate every year from now on? Is it reasonable and the price worth paying?

Where are you getting the 5% from? You're just adding the 5% on and on prior to "What if's" that don't sound plausible to me. Although if you did quote experts there I would like to know, that could change my view. To my current knowledge it is more and more looking like its fatality rate is sitting around 1%. People, especially older ones, die, we often supress that thought in the western culture. And many die, ever…

hanspedah, people believe 5% is the death rate that occurs if medical services are not available (and would thus be much higher than the death rate if medical services are available). And if there is no mitigation, the vast majority of people that would need medical care wouldn't be able to get it.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#106

Yuval Noah Harari (author of Sapiens) wrote a piece [1] on how we're now facing a choice between authoritarian surveillance and citizen empowerment, and how a decision made in this crisis could set the standard for the future. [1] https://www.ft.com/content/19d90308-6858-11ea-a3c9-1fe6fedcc...

A fascinating counterpoint to this is the German government, who not just as probably the first country did something distinctly different to quarantine (it's called contact prohibition and you can go anywhere you like as long as you don't meet with more than one person not from your household), but also rejected mass cell phone surveillance plans by a large margin. People here are mostly calm, cautious and despite a…

Thanks! I wasn't aware of the German approach.

It would be very heartening if the German strategy works.

And I really like the way Germany remains consistently conscious of personal values, things like rejecting mass surveillance and looking for another way. It's one of the things I like best about Germany.

But it really depends how people behave next.

In the UK, the government has announcement a bigger lockdown with strong rules and enforcement, because at the weekend masses of people were simply ignoring requests to socially distance. Too many people were using the "time off" to go on holidays and cluster in high density situations, completely ignoring all health advice for the protection of themselves and others.

The German approach of "you're free to go around, but don't meet with more than one person" will only work if people actually comply.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I envy you. I am American. I live near, and teach at, a large state university -- which has closed for the spring semester and moved to online instruction. This past Friday there was a house party across the street -- presumably all students. Usually I am very chill, but this time I called the cops.

That behaviour reminds me of dark age where neighbours spied on each other and reported them to the government. And the thing that frightens me is that you and several others are doing this voluntarily.

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. Even if you're right, this helps no one and degrades this place.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#108
post #7

Taiwan doing this = effective. china doing this = creepy. however, probably necessary in both cases. perhaps a rhetorical cease-fire globally would benefit us all.

One of those countries is an authoritarian "communist" state with a well oiled dissent suppression machine.

Please don't take HN threads further into nationalistic or ideological flamewar.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#109

> which has reported only reported 108 cases of the virus absolutely amazing

hahahahahahahhahaaha thank you for this

Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News? You've done it repeatedly, and we're trying for something different than that here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#110
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PR?

Permanent Residence thats good. Rules are rules, especially in these times.

That's terrible. PR is supposed to be "more or less a citizen, now stay for long enough and you can become a citizen".

Not "we'll call it permanent but it doesn't mean anything".

Rules means justice and enforcement too.

You're not supposed to have a different justice system for people on PR than for citizens. They should have jailed the person, if that's what they do to citizens, or done whatever else they do to citizens who break the rules.

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