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Re: undefined

#271

Post by [deleted] »

hnburnsy wrote: post #186
baxtr wrote: post #2

The repeated recommendation to use a drug which has not been properly tested by the president of the most powerful nation on this planet seems inappropriate to me.

They didn't take the drug, they took an aquarium cleaner... http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate >A man has died and his wife is under critical care after the couple, both in their 60s, ingested chloroquine phosphate, an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks. Within thirty minutes of ingestion, the couple experienced immediate effects requiring admittance to a nearby Banner Health…

[deleted]

Re: undefined

#272

Post by et2o »

pbreit wrote: post #252
et2o wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is NOT good RCT evidence for the efficacy of chloroquine for COVID —— Medical Professional Stop acting like there is. It’s insane at this point. It might work, but frankly it’s unlikely given the history of chloroquine’s failures as an antiviral.

There is...both in vitro and in vivo. The pushback on chloroquine is completely insane. It's a 90 year old, well-understood drug used safely by millions with mild side effects.

Sorry, this is just not true.

The in-vitro results for chloroquine as an antiviral have been positive for many viruses, but it has never worked out in RCTs.

Claiming there is good evidence from in-vivo studies is scientifically illiterate. Please post links to well-done RCTs if you believe they exist.

There is a reason the WHO is running a 5-arm clinical trial for COVID.

Edit: Your response to me literally says “In-Vitro” in the title.

Edit 2: “There is absolutely evidence” ... But no links. No, sorry, you are still just wrong.

Re: undefined

#273

Post by ComputerGuru »

cheese4242 wrote: post #195
otterley wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think so. People grew up to trust institutions, and for decades they had good reason to (at least in the subjects of public health and safety). Who's to blame when after decades -- no, centuries -- we elect a leader who makes false claims that are counter to medical science -- and potentially hazardous, if followed, to the public health? The victim, or the authority? I know which party I blame.

The man who died drank aquarium cleaner. It is a huge stretch to blame that on Trump.

He didn’t. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22670152

Re: undefined

#274

Post by dmix »

belorn wrote: post #250
6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently chloroquine phosphate is the right drug and it's a synonym for chloroquine the drug. https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-8633/chloroquine-oral/det... Also all the wikipedia references are about chloroquine phosphate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloroquine#References Looks like they did take the right drug, but OD'd or something.

chloroquine phosphate might be one of many compounds of a cleaning product for aquariums. One other very common part of cleaning products, and extremely toxic, is chlorine. Was this specific cleaning product intended to be used when the fish are still in the tank? Its things like this which is the reason why Sweden has almost banned every cleaning product that has the word alcohol as one of its ingredient, and those…

> if people will look at something like a cleaning product and think "I will drink this" then there is not much options available.

Last year I watched as a homeless man squirted hand sanitizer into a cup then drink it. Before a woman yelled at him and started calling 911. He disappeared pretty quickly after that, so not sure what ever happened to him.

Fun fact: The hand sanitizer stand he used was one of the ones installed around public areas in Toronto after the last SARS outbreak.

Re: undefined

#275

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #217
hnburnsy wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't take the drug, they took an aquarium cleaner... http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate >A man has died and his wife is under critical care after the couple, both in their 60s, ingested chloroquine phosphate, an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks. Within thirty minutes of ingestion, the couple experienced immediate effects requiring admittance to a nearby Banner Health…

Apparently chloroquine phosphate is the right drug and it's a synonym for chloroquine the drug. https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-8633/chloroquine-oral/det... Also all the wikipedia references are about chloroquine phosphate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloroquine#References Looks like they did take the right drug, but OD'd or something.

Aquarium cleaner likely contains more than just this one particular chemical, plus water. They may also have had comorbidities.

Re: undefined

#276

Post by pbreit »

Uehreka wrote: post #165
tomp wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been tested for years (decades? it's generic) as an anti-malaria drug. Any drug can be overdosed.

It hasn’t been tested against Covid-19. Recommending (or even vaguely hinting) that people just try random drugs that the FDA has approved for other uses is not a strategy with no downside.

It's been confirmed effective against SARS CoV in vitro [1]. Before you say it, yes, I know treatments in vitro do not always work in vivo.

Reports from China, South Korea and France have suggested efficacy in humans against COVID-19.

1: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15351731

Re: undefined

#277

Post by cheese4242 »

brewdad wrote: post #241
cheese4242 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The man who died drank aquarium cleaner. It is a huge stretch to blame that on Trump.

He drank aquarium cleaner because the President of the United States told him it would cure the virus. Not a stretch at all.

Trump told people to take it without a prescription?

Re: undefined

#278

Post by marzell »

plastic_teeth wrote: post #58
baxtr wrote: post #2

The repeated recommendation to use a drug which has not been properly tested by the president of the most powerful nation on this planet seems inappropriate to me.

True thing. Also people who I like like Elon Musk spoke about it https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1239650597906898947?s=20 On one side his voice should be heard, it may give people hope and help to move stuff On the other side, some people who don't know what balance is, might use it in the wrong way.

Bestow whatever personal praise you want on Elon Musk based on power, charisma, whatever...

As one of the most famous people in the world, with his own agendas, and no medical qualifications... it is extremely irresponsible for Musk to make any sort of public comments about anything medical in nature. No matter what he says, a significant number of people will take it to heart and ignore medical advice, science, and their own common sense.

Re: undefined

#279

Post by swebs »

post_below wrote: post #28

A bit more info: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/man-dies-after-in... Also happening in Nigeria: https://www.democracynow.org/2020/3/23/headlines/two_nigeria... Note that there doesn't appear to be any evidence yet that chloroquine is effective in COVID-19 treatment. So far it has been studied only for other types of coronavirus.

>Note that there doesn't appear to be any evidence yet that chloroquine is effective in COVID-19 treatment. So far it has been studied only for other types of coronavirus.

Seriously? It seems like every few days a new study pops up here.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-020-0156-0.pdf

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/20...

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04307693

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S092485792...

It seemed like there was no shortage of praise for this drug in the media, until president Trump mentioned it and then all the talking heads did a complete 180.

Re: undefined

#280

Post by cmurf »

orblivion wrote: post #167
DagAgren wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And do you think that is what every other person is reading?

Clearly not, judging by how my votes are doing. But I think their emotions are getting in the way, leading them to see things that aren't there.

Do you suppose people who take prescription drugs without a doctor's supervision are letting emotions get in the way, or do you think they're acting rationally? And do you suppose it's possible their emotions are influenced by the glittering generalities they heard, even though your emotions are not so influenced?
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