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Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

reuters.com

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Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#91

Post by hanspedah »

candu wrote: post #80
hanspedah wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That behaviour reminds me of dark age where neighbours spied on each other and reported them to the government. And the thing that frightens me is that you and several others are doing this voluntarily.

...except that, in said dark ages, that got people executed for treason or witchcraft or what have you. Here, it could very well save lives. Many democratic governments have tried voluntary restrictions - some people are complying, but others don't seem to care. What else is there but to enforce those restrictions via previously existing channels (e.g. Quarantine Act in Canada)? IMHO, this is similar to reporting som…

It not only could but it saves lives, I'm not disputing that. But the question is at what cost to the individual, the society, the economy and their future. What happens if the economy crashes? Is it reasonable and the price worth paying? We should be allowed to not only ask these questions but discuss them.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#92

Post by jarfil »

hanspedah wrote: post #70
impendia wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I envy you. I am American. I live near, and teach at, a large state university -- which has closed for the spring semester and moved to online instruction. This past Friday there was a house party across the street -- presumably all students. Usually I am very chill, but this time I called the cops.

That behaviour reminds me of dark age where neighbours spied on each other and reported them to the government. And the thing that frightens me is that you and several others are doing this voluntarily.

When someone threatens my life, I'm either going to call the cops, or try to kill them in self defense. Even if they're threatening someone else's life, you could still get away with killing them.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#94

Post by qwerty456127 »

flyt wrote: post #89
qwerty456127 wrote: post #85

I wouldn't feel comfortable being stripped of the right to have no phone.

Then don't travel to Taiwan for a few months.

What about the rest of the time? Is it easy to live without a phone in Taiwan? Can you buy a non-locked phone and a prepaid SIM card anonymously?

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#95

Post by refurb »

cma wrote: post #10
refurb wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a Chinese person in Singapore who had PR and refused to follow the quarantine order. They took away his PR status.

PR?

Permanent residence, basically the same as a US green card. Allows you to live there permanently. Limited number are available in Singapore, so not easy to get.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#96

Post by hanspedah »

jarfil wrote: post #92
hanspedah wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That behaviour reminds me of dark age where neighbours spied on each other and reported them to the government. And the thing that frightens me is that you and several others are doing this voluntarily.

When someone threatens my life, I'm either going to call the cops, or try to kill them in self defense. Even if they're threatening someone else's life, you could still get away with killing them.

That fear and panic really got you it seems. Should we kill other people for infecting others with the seasonal flu virus as well, which also costs many lives per year? If you are endangered it is up to YOU to stay safe not the other way around. Do you know how many people die of car accidents? Should we kill all drivers just because they are potentially threatning someone elses life?

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#97

Post by jarfil »

hanspedah wrote: post #91
candu wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...except that, in said dark ages, that got people executed for treason or witchcraft or what have you. Here, it could very well save lives. Many democratic governments have tried voluntary restrictions - some people are complying, but others don't seem to care. What else is there but to enforce those restrictions via previously existing channels (e.g. Quarantine Act in Canada)? IMHO, this is similar to reporting som…

It not only could but it saves lives, I'm not disputing that. But the question is at what cost to the individual, the society, the economy and their future. What happens if the economy crashes? Is it reasonable and the price worth paying? We should be allowed to not only ask these questions but discuss them.

If you want to ask those questions, you also need to ask what's the alternative. What happens if we continue business as usual and 5% of the population dies in a couple months? What if the virus mutates and another 5% die in the next couple months after that? What if immunity only lasts for half a year, and we get a 5% death rate every year from now on? Is it reasonable and the price worth paying?

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#98

Post by akiselev »

njarboe wrote: post #86
wahern wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Income tax started out as a war fund some one or two hundred years ago... Prior to industrialization almost all profit surpluses accrued to the elite, who always were taxed quite heavily. Industrialization meant the rise of the wage-earning middle-class and a shift in wealth (not to mention expenditures), thus the income tax.

The revolution in the US from England started with a tax revolt. The founders hoped to create a new nation where the government didn't try and maximize its tax on citizens and just tax enough to maintain the functions of government. The wealthy were not taxed at high rates in the US and Federal revenue was around 3% of GDP until the income tax was implemented. One could hope for a governing class that would let peopl…

> The founders hoped to create a new nation where the government didn't try and maximize its tax on citizens and just tax enough to maintain the functions of government.

That's not at all what they hoped to create. The colonists didn't write no taxation or minimize taxation but no taxation without representation. Don't take my word for it, though, they wrote up a whole list of grievances (most of which have to do with the representation bit): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievances_of_the_United_State...

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#99

Post by yongjik »

impendia wrote: post #24
huangc10 wrote: post #14

Like other people are saying, there's definitely ways around this. The only reason why Taiwan has been so successful in battling Coronavirus is that there is national pride in acting as a whole and doing what's best for society. There is huge shame to the family for people who defy. Taiwanese people generally know what helps society and when to listen. It is the cultural influence/mix of Chinese and Japanese governme…

I envy you. I am American. I live near, and teach at, a large state university -- which has closed for the spring semester and moved to online instruction. This past Friday there was a house party across the street -- presumably all students. Usually I am very chill, but this time I called the cops.

As a resident of the USA, thank you for your service.

Re: Taiwan's new 'electronic fence' for quarantines leads wave of virus monitoring

#100

Post by impendia »

hanspedah wrote: post #91
candu wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...except that, in said dark ages, that got people executed for treason or witchcraft or what have you. Here, it could very well save lives. Many democratic governments have tried voluntary restrictions - some people are complying, but others don't seem to care. What else is there but to enforce those restrictions via previously existing channels (e.g. Quarantine Act in Canada)? IMHO, this is similar to reporting som…

It not only could but it saves lives, I'm not disputing that. But the question is at what cost to the individual, the society, the economy and their future. What happens if the economy crashes? Is it reasonable and the price worth paying? We should be allowed to not only ask these questions but discuss them.

> Is it reasonable and the price worth paying?

It's a fair question, and it's one I considered before I called.

I don't know what happened in the end. Very possibly nothing. I had hoped that a uniformed police officer would stop by, talk to the partiers, mention that there was a complaint, also mention something about COVID-19, urge people to go home, and then depart.

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