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Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

globalhealthnow.org

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Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#191

Post by ta999999171 »

tcbawo wrote: post #137
GekkePrutser wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wondering, I use a CPAP machine... If I were to get this, could I use that to keep going at home? (Perhaps with a higher setting). It sounds like the same thing. CPAP masks do leak air but contamination doesn't really matter as I live alone.

I don't have medical advice for you (not a doctor), but if you need assistance breathing you should call a doctor immediately. Hopefully, we'll get more guidance as we learn from what is working.

What an awful response.

He's clearly talking about the context in which medical staff are overwhelmed and unavailable.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#193

Post by refurb »

maxerickson wrote: post #22
refurb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the HIV epidemic back in the 1980s, techniques have been developed to inactivate any pathogen in donated plasma. They can use detergents or heat. Could something slip by? Sure, but it’s a pretty robust system.

What do those techniques do to antibodies?

Presumably nothing.

IV Ig is a very common plasma product. The therapeutic entity is the antibodies and they survive the sterilization process.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#194

Post by koheripbal »

rsfern wrote: post #17

Formal writeup here: https://www.jci.org/articles/view/138003 Edit: lots of interesting details. a couple takeaways: 1. “Depending on the antibody amount and composition, the protection conferred by the transferred immunoglobulin can last from weeks to months.” 2. One of the proposed deployments is to protect frontline health care workers from infection (and remove their need to quarantine) until a vaccine can be dev…

It's really only a solution for healthcare workers due to the amount of work required to harvest and transfer immunoglobulin.

I think a far more scalable solution for the general public is the use of existing anti-viral drugs.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#195

Post by rstuart4133 »

lucian1900 wrote: post #130
fallingknife wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which non-capitalist countries have handled it better?

China, Vietnam, Cuba.

China: yes.

Vietnam: it's gone exponential, so no. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_V...

Cuba: too early to tell.

South Korea: looks to be under control, despite having patient 31 who is the worst super spreader of covid-19 on the planet. They are a capitalist economy.

Taiwan: a capitalist country that looked to have it under control early (like Vietnam) but it now seems to have escaped and gone exponential.

So far I'd say whether a country has got it under control depended on a whether a few key individuals in power decided to enact expensive decisive and control measures immediately. (Of course in hindsight they weren't expensive compared to what was to come, but it took a lot of balls to do it nonetheless.)

The rest of us (including the USA) had to wait until most of civil society understood the risk and took action. I think that's happening on a large scale in every democratic capitalist nation now. Even if you have a Trump in power, the forces that unleashes are irresistible - everyone moves as a group to protect themselves. A hallmark of capitalist economies is they are very good at self organising. Those same forces aren't so irresistible in a non-capitalist non-democratic country, and they aren't so practised at self organisation.

We now have a benchmark for how fast that happens in the internet age. Apparently in one month you can go from zero to the bulk of population on the same page, providing the facts are reasonably clear. (The highly infectious nature of SARS-Cov-2 was pretty clear from the start. The implications of what that meant were also clear to those who understood the math - but most had to learn and that takes time.)

I find that speed kinda amazing, and it's a blessing bestowed on us by the Internet.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#196

Post by jlokier »

acqq wrote: post #90
jlokier wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the main obstacles to scalability of production and of use? Could the former be amenable to treatment as an engineering problem? There are a lot of motivated engineering minds right now.

I'm not a professional in that area, just based on what I've read, so in case of doubt, check better sources: If you use human donors, you need trained doctors spending time and equipment to select the donors, handle the donors, take care of them during the donation which takes hours (the needle is stuck in their vein during that time), trained professionals using expensive equipment to process the donation, and then…

Thanks, that's quite informative.

In a critical situation such as the pandemic, it seems to me, from a project management and engineering perspective, that it might be worth ramping up production of a vaccine (or several) even before it has passed later stage trials, and maybe even pre-distribute it a bit to national storage facilities. So if the trials look great and the side effects are sufficiently minimal, the delay for manufacture and distribution will be reduced after the trials.

But I guess I see all sorts of political problems with that, if the trials are good but the side effects are a problem, or say it causes a horrible desease for 0.1% of people down the line. The pressure to use the product would be immense, despite the trial saying no this is not safe.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#197

Post by bad_user »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #120
bad_user wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU did not have strategic reserves for a pandemic. This took us all by surprise and the speed with which this evolved into a clusterfuck was breathtaking. Everyone has been freaking out about their own situation. Nobody has enough masks, ventilators, hospital beds or trained staff. Consider that the first cases in Rome were confirmed on January 31 to my knowledge. We are less than 2 months in. Also this news abou…

Why do you say it's probably fake news? China's aid to Italy is well-documented and widely reported; do you know of other stories where the EU has provided a comparable amount of aid?

The EU provided 50 tons worth of medical equipment to China in January.

The exchange was mutual.

---

What is fake is the way this story is portrayed, i.e. the EU does nothing, provides no aid, whereas look at China and Russia, our would be saviors.

Never mind that Chinese authorities lacked transparency, censored whistle blowers, were late to admit the problems of human to human transmissions and allowed millions of people to fly out of Wuhan to all corners of the world, thousands of them being infected, ultimately this early inaction being in part responsible for the pandemic.

I see China's efforts of late and I appreciate them, in the end we're all human, we all make mistakes and this is a time for all of us to work together. But that's NOT the tone set by such posts, or the intent.

My Facebook feed is filled with fake news that is clearly targeted at destabilizing the EU, a crisis like this being the perfect opportunity and my tolerance for it is really low.

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#198

Post by acqq »

jlokier wrote: post #196
acqq wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a professional in that area, just based on what I've read, so in case of doubt, check better sources: If you use human donors, you need trained doctors spending time and equipment to select the donors, handle the donors, take care of them during the donation which takes hours (the needle is stuck in their vein during that time), trained professionals using expensive equipment to process the donation, and then…

Thanks, that's quite informative. In a critical situation such as the pandemic, it seems to me, from a project management and engineering perspective, that it might be worth ramping up production of a vaccine (or several) even before it has passed later stage trials, and maybe even pre-distribute it a bit to national storage facilities. So if the trials look great and the side effects are sufficiently minimal, the de…

Long term, THE major problem is the expectation to profit every time, stupidly, nobody with the money cares if one of that times the whole world gets infected:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-long-will-it-ta...

"There may never be a market for a vaccine at the end of the development process, because the epidemic is contained, or never comes to pass. Then, traditionally, if there is an epidemic, it may take hold in a developing country where the costs of research and development cannot be recouped. “The resources and expertise sit in biotech and pharma, and they’ve got their business model,” Grant said. “They’re not charities. They can’t do this stuff for free.”"

The "investors" just want the growth of their money, even the money they make would become meaningless after the pandemics that's efficient enough. The nature is indeed capable to set its own growth not caring about the "interests of investors."

Obviously the whole structure as well as the priorities just have to be set differently. The next time could be even much worse than now.

Which must be a political decision for change, not a technological "invention". The technology is not a "deux ex machina" -- the natural limitations are real. Some solutions exist but simply can't be expected to "make profit every time." So how can it be done? Taxes. What was too dangerous selling point for generations of politicians? "Less taxes."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina

But the taxes are even now used, and spent in mind boggling amount, just for other priorities, year after year:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/21/magazine/f35-joint-strike...

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#199

Post by gingerlime »

lnsru wrote: post #116
funcDropShadow wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To make it short, 20 years ago most hospitals were privatized, before they were run by universities, cities, and states and some other public actors. There were already some private hospitals, but not too much. Since, then most hospitals were sold to companies or in the better case transformed into companies, partly owned by their previous owner. Companies optimize for revenue, so they don't spend money on stocks of…

I have public health insurance, but if you need some better treatment you can always pay for it by yourself. Some minor surgery for 300€ isn’t big deal. Or one can get additional insurance packages to mandatory insurance for all the special needs. My all older colleagues tell me, that private insurance is kind of scam. You pay almost nothing when you are young, but with age it costs more and more. You pay for kids on…

Probably not better treatment but my private insurance almost always gets me faster appointments. I just mention the magic word and suddenly there’s an available slot next week (otherwise only in a few months). Happened more than once.

My insurance broker said that the price I pay now should cover future payments and increases are only allowed if there are some overall increases to the treatment options. ie new more expensive treatments become available... so cost can increase but within certain boundaries. Was I misguided on that one?

Re: Covid-19’s stop-gap solution until vaccines and antivirals are ready

#200

Post by gingerlime »

maigret wrote: post #121
lnsru wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have public health insurance, but if you need some better treatment you can always pay for it by yourself. Some minor surgery for 300€ isn’t big deal. Or one can get additional insurance packages to mandatory insurance for all the special needs. My all older colleagues tell me, that private insurance is kind of scam. You pay almost nothing when you are young, but with age it costs more and more. You pay for kids on…

An insurance lawyer (friend of mine) also advised me to stay on a public plan and add up private addons where needed - those can be canceled very easily. I’ve not regretted that decision since.

I’d love to talk to you or your friend if you don’t mind. My contact details are on my HN profile.
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