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Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

japantimes.co.jp

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Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#341

Post by brigandish »

autokad wrote: post #298
pdonis wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they dont work and health care workers need them to not get the virus Isn't that an obvious oxymoron?

I don't think so, but its definitely a contradiction in logic...

That would depend on the assumptions, those being:

- context i.e. clinical setting vs on the street

- type of mask

- skill set of those using the equipment

For example, knives are very effective in surgery when they are:

- in a surgical theatre

- a scapel

- used by a surgeon

I don't suggest doing surgery in the street with a knife from your kitchen draw used by a teenager.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#342

Post by ALittleLight »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #312
objektif wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we are being told that masks don't hep with prevention. Do you mean that sick ones do that not to spread?

They don't do much to protect you from getting infected. They do a lot to prevent you from infecting other people.

If masks don't prevent you from getting infected then why do medical professionals want masks? Everything I've read suggests that masks reduce your risk of infection, and that pairs with the common sense idea that filters in front of your respiratory tract entrance would reduce the risk of foreign particles entering and infecting you.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#343

Post by Engineering-MD »

claytongulick wrote: post #329
wolco wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a 4.3% death rate if the same number were infected you would be looking at 2 million in the US.

4.3% is just simply wrong, even by absolute worst case measures. Please don't spread this number. Even in Wuhan, they revised the official number down to 1.4%, and every serious epidemiologist is saying it's likely much lower, because of undocumented cases. (Current models have it at 86% unreported).

Which model has it at 86% unreported? I just haven’t seen this particular study.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#344

Post by LyndsySimon »

ALittleLight wrote: post #342
TheCoelacanth wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't do much to protect you from getting infected. They do a lot to prevent you from infecting other people.

If masks don't prevent you from getting infected then why do medical professionals want masks? Everything I've read suggests that masks reduce your risk of infection, and that pairs with the common sense idea that filters in front of your respiratory tract entrance would reduce the risk of foreign particles entering and infecting you.

Simply putting on a mask does a great deal to limit the spread of a virus you already have - you’re not spewing particles all over your environment due to respiration.

Simply putting on a mask does very little to keep you from getting sick, because you’re very unlikely to be following proper PPE donning/doffing procedures. Unless you your house set up as a “clean zone” with two rooms between it and the outside world - one for removing PPE, and one for putting PPE on - then it’s really not helping much for reducing your exposure.

It makes sense to me.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#345

Post by ekianjo »

adev_ wrote: post #78

Not so surprising. You have also the same outliers with Hong Kong and Taiwan. - In Japan, people naturally respect social distancing. Touching someone is considered rude, everyone bows instead of shaking hands and nobody kiss. - Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others. They do that since way before Cornavirus and on voluntary based. - Washing hands is common, being clean (bath cult…

Man sorry to say but all your comments are completely wrong.

- Social distancing does not exist in large cities like osaka and Tokyo. And that's a lot of people. Try to take a train at any time of the days and see if you can keep more than 10cm apart from anyone else. Good luck.

- Masks: there's no masks sold anywhere as we speak. And that's been a month already.

- Washing hands: more common than in other countries maybe, but I still see lots of guys who dont even rinse their hands after taking a piss. Both old and young.

- Listen to government: laughable claim. The government has been asking for social distancing and still in my neighborhood I can see parents and kids going together to play in parks with no care whatsoever.

- Elders in society? Ever heard of filled up nursing homes? yes, that is a thing in Japan.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#346

Post by summerlight »

adev_ wrote: post #78

Not so surprising. You have also the same outliers with Hong Kong and Taiwan. - In Japan, people naturally respect social distancing. Touching someone is considered rude, everyone bows instead of shaking hands and nobody kiss. - Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others. They do that since way before Cornavirus and on voluntary based. - Washing hands is common, being clean (bath cult…

No. They simply don't test enough and they have good incentives not to do so. And please don't inconsiderately project your stereotypical image of Japanese, or Asian, on this matter unless you had spent a good amount of time (>20 yrs) in a relevant community.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#347

Post by hatenberg »

adev_ wrote: post #78

Not so surprising. You have also the same outliers with Hong Kong and Taiwan. - In Japan, people naturally respect social distancing. Touching someone is considered rude, everyone bows instead of shaking hands and nobody kiss. - Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others. They do that since way before Cornavirus and on voluntary based. - Washing hands is common, being clean (bath cult…

If you've ever been in a mens bathroom in Japan ... washing hands doesnt happen, let alone with soap

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#348

Post by aaron695 »

E14n wrote: post #322
aaron695 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Surgical masks are designed to prevent you spreading viruses That maybe true but that doesn't change the fact they help you from catching it as well. It simply doesn't make any sense going one way is 100% and the other is 0% And what we want is to chip away at the R0 in as many ways as possible. And that's skipping the fact people thinking they are protecting themselves are also protecting others.

If there were an unlimited supply of surgical masks that would make sense. If you wearing a mask deprives actually sick people of wearing one then you are still worse off then not wearing one.

Imagine if everyone didn't just accept this lie and we retooled factories 2 months ago

https://www.news-journalonline.com/business/20200320/coronav...

When you sell to the public to protect themselves they can fund a lot more than a hospital and maintain it for long periods of use.

Other than just letting people all die off and getting herd immunity any possible solution will involve everyone wearing masks.

We have a year more of this, there is still time to change direction.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#349

Post by unishark »

summerlight wrote: post #346
adev_ wrote: post #78

Not so surprising. You have also the same outliers with Hong Kong and Taiwan. - In Japan, people naturally respect social distancing. Touching someone is considered rude, everyone bows instead of shaking hands and nobody kiss. - Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others. They do that since way before Cornavirus and on voluntary based. - Washing hands is common, being clean (bath cult…

No. They simply don't test enough and they have good incentives not to do so. And please don't inconsiderately project your stereotypical image of Japanese, or Asian, on this matter unless you had spent a good amount of time (>20 yrs) in a relevant community.

The article gave several problems with that theory. If Japan's curve was where it is "supposed to be" weeks ago when people were making the same argument you are now, where are the piles of bodies and overwhelmed ICU's? They may eventually get there of course, since anything besides lockdown seems very risky these days. But the passage of time has proved your argument wrong time and again. More consideration is needed to understand what has happened there.

Though I certainly think they should just ramp up the testing and make it easier.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#350

Post by l_davis »

fiblye wrote: post #206
l_davis wrote: post #50

In Japan, people wear masks so they don't spread their germs. In the US, people want to wear masks to avoid other's germs. Totally different mindset. And in the US we are being discouraged from wearing masks because they don't block the virus from going in even though they could be keeping asymptomatic people from spreading. Well I feel duly embarrassed for not thinking that way earlier. Just ordered some cotton mask…

> In Japan, people wear masks so they don't spread their germs. In the US, people want to wear masks to avoid other's germs. Totally different mindset. Absolute orientalist BS. I work in a Japanese workplace. Lots of people here don't normally wear masks. When they do wear masks, they pull them down to cough or sneeze so that they don't walk around with a wet and dirty mask. The idea that I could be dirty and infecti…

Certainly Japanese people look out for their own self interest. And there are non altruistic reasons for wearing masks - including, if you are female, skipping makeup. I don't buy into the stereotypes that you mention, but I do believe that Japanese manners, in general, make it easier for people to coexist in crowded places. That includes wearing masks. And maybe I'm completely wrong about that. I still think that if more asymptomatic people in the US wore masks in public (and I don't think complete distancing is sustainable long term), the spread of this could be slowed. So I do intend to wear the masks I purchased when they arrive. I do hope I keep up with that resolve. On my last trip to Japan I had a cold and wore masks to try to be polite and avoid spreading my germs. They really aren't that comfortable.
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