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Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

japantimes.co.jp

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Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#321

Post by [deleted] »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #292
barry-cotter wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A hazmat suit is better than a respirator. A respirator is better than a surgical mask. A surgical mask is better than a tea towel/dish cloth. A tea towel is better than a T-shirt. A T-shirt is better than a scarf. A scarf is far better than nothing. Nothing short of a hazmat suit will prevent you from catching the virus but all of the above will reduce the chances of you catching it. There aren’t enough respirator,…

Removing a mask from your face will put your hands in contact with vulnerable areas that otherwise would be avoided. Additionally, if a homemade mask were to become contaminated, repeated handling could put you and others at greater risk.

[deleted]

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#322

Post by E14n »

aaron695 wrote: post #318
E14n wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surgical masks are designed to prevent you spreading viruses. That is the type most people wear in Japan. N95 masks are designed to protect you.

> Surgical masks are designed to prevent you spreading viruses That maybe true but that doesn't change the fact they help you from catching it as well. It simply doesn't make any sense going one way is 100% and the other is 0% And what we want is to chip away at the R0 in as many ways as possible. And that's skipping the fact people thinking they are protecting themselves are also protecting others.

If there were an unlimited supply of surgical masks that would make sense. If you wearing a mask deprives actually sick people of wearing one then you are still worse off then not wearing one.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#323

Post by tagrun »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #292
barry-cotter wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A hazmat suit is better than a respirator. A respirator is better than a surgical mask. A surgical mask is better than a tea towel/dish cloth. A tea towel is better than a T-shirt. A T-shirt is better than a scarf. A scarf is far better than nothing. Nothing short of a hazmat suit will prevent you from catching the virus but all of the above will reduce the chances of you catching it. There aren’t enough respirator,…

Removing a mask from your face will put your hands in contact with vulnerable areas that otherwise would be avoided. Additionally, if a homemade mask were to become contaminated, repeated handling could put you and others at greater risk.

I'm baffled how one office spreading patently false information that defies logic and physics could be so effective.

Not using a mask as community will ensure that virtually everywhere is potentially contaminated and you are under a larger risk and at all times --not isolated to the moment when you remove the mask (which people typically do at a place where they can wash/cleanse their hands anyway).

So for crying out loud, please stop spreading this nonsense! Masks don't replace washing hands, general hygiene and social distancing, it supplements them. And of course they do work: https://doi.org/10.7326/0003-4819-151-7-200910060-00142 https://doi.org/10.1177/003335491012500206

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#324

Post by bsder »

aaron695 wrote: post #318
E14n wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surgical masks are designed to prevent you spreading viruses. That is the type most people wear in Japan. N95 masks are designed to protect you.

> Surgical masks are designed to prevent you spreading viruses That maybe true but that doesn't change the fact they help you from catching it as well. It simply doesn't make any sense going one way is 100% and the other is 0% And what we want is to chip away at the R0 in as many ways as possible. And that's skipping the fact people thinking they are protecting themselves are also protecting others.

> It simply doesn't make any sense going one way is 100% and the other is 0%

It's not 100% vs 0%. It's probably something like 70% vs 5% (Disclaimer: I'm pulling numbers out of my ass).

When someone who is sick wears a mask, they dramatically cut down on how much virus is PROPELLED OUT OF THEIR MOUTH. That's the big win. It still likely comes out their nose or is on their hands. But at least it isn't propelled with a cough or sneeze so if you wipe surfaces and avoid contact, you're probably okay. That mask protects dozens of people.

When a healthy person wears a mask, he protects only himself and the only thing he is "protecting" against is airborne droplets into his mouth. Most masks don't cover the nose and eyes which are the primary transmission routes for droplets. Most people don't breathe with their mouth open. You're probably safer simply wearing glasses, especially safety glasses. A lot of famous singers wear glasses/sunglasses all the time for exactly this reason.

A mask shortage will exacerbate these scenarios. One healthy person taking a mask away from one sick person is a TERRIBLE tradeoff.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#325

Post by ashleysmithgpu »

adev_ wrote: post #78

Not so surprising. You have also the same outliers with Hong Kong and Taiwan. - In Japan, people naturally respect social distancing. Touching someone is considered rude, everyone bows instead of shaking hands and nobody kiss. - Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others. They do that since way before Cornavirus and on voluntary based. - Washing hands is common, being clean (bath cult…

I live in Japan. "Washing hands is common" this is incorrect. Most bathrooms do not have soap and many people do not wash their hands.

"People listen and obey to their government" This is also not true, many hanami events have been cancelled but there were actually more people out viewing yesterday than last year. I am relatively sure the turnout will be higher than last year to many of the parks.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#326

Post by justicezyx »

adev_ wrote: post #79
justicezyx wrote: post #24

Japnese are like Chinese, are quite obedient, therefore can follow quite throughly of the checks in the entry and exit of the country. Plus, itself has much more modern and disciplined public health system, with more experiences dealing with similar issues. Last but not least, the Japan lands are literally isolated from continents, making the transition of virus through other medium much more easier to track.

> Japnese are like Chinese I would advise you to never say to a Chinese or a Japanese that they are alike. Excepted if you want to enrich your vocabulary with new insults in a foreign language. Many of them are nationalists, and not really appreciating each other.

Hahahah

Stereotyping is nature.

I am Chinese, I know very well what happened in WWII, and Japanese people willingly supported their fascism government, and the monstrosity committed by the Japanese invasion army on Chinese soil.

Then do I feel insulted that Japanese retained and even refined a lot of ancient Chinese traditions, and modern Chinese culture have been greatly influenced by Japanese, because they were more receptive to western influence early on?

In many people's eyes, I should.

But, no, I do not. I admit to facts, not sentiment.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#327

Post by boomboomsubban »

tagrun wrote: post #311
boomboomsubban wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't agree. Masks would only help in the event that someone coughed/sneezed directly on your face but missed the eyes. Even then, removing the mask and washing your face without contamination would be difficult. Makeshift masks don't necessarily even help in that situation, become a liability when contaminated, and putting it on then removing it causes additional risk.

This is why that someone also needs to wear a mask. Don't worry, people aren't morons and have been using masks in Japan and other countries for decades just fine. Yes, masks can hold contaminated droplets --that's their purpose. When people don't use masks on the other hand, those droplets that would have remained on the mask now end up everywhere else, and now you have a far more spread vectors with basically every…

If you are sick, masks are great. Even homemade ones. This is about healthy people wearing masks.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#328

Post by boomboomsubban »

objektif wrote: post #308
boomboomsubban wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anytime a mask would prevent you from ingesting an airborne viruses, it becomes a contaminated surface.

So as your clothes and skin except that when you are wearing a mask you dont get sick.

Removing a contaminated mask involves both touching a contaminated surface and touching your face, which you say can still get you sick.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#329

Post by claytongulick »

wolco wrote: post #249
lazyier wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably more likely they are just ignoring it. In 2018 influenza killed around 61,000 people (46000-95000 95%UI) in the USA. Estimated 45,000,000 people got sick. 21,000,000 people made hospital visits with around 810,000 people hospitalized. So it didn't fling the USA into a recession. Business continued as normal. For Italy you had 7,027 deaths for the '13-'14 flu season, 20,259 '14-'15, 15,801 '15-'16, and 24,981…

At a 4.3% death rate if the same number were infected you would be looking at 2 million in the US.

4.3% is just simply wrong, even by absolute worst case measures. Please don't spread this number.

Even in Wuhan, they revised the official number down to 1.4%, and every serious epidemiologist is saying it's likely much lower, because of undocumented cases. (Current models have it at 86% unreported).

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#330

Post by bsder »

barry-cotter wrote: post #263
boomboomsubban wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Surgeon General is correct. Masks are for the sick.

They said masks aren’t effective at stopping people getting sick. That’s misinformation. If they weren’t effective at reducing infection healthcare workers wouldn’t wear them. Saying there aren’t enough for healthcare workers isn’t. Save respirators and surgical masks for healthcare workers. Wear a mask if you’re going outside even if it’s just a tshirt covering your face.

> If they weren’t effective at reducing infection healthcare workers wouldn’t wear them.

Have you seen the pictures of healthcare workers using "effective" mask protocol? Have you also noticed that said protocol almost always includes goggles?

If I can't trace the seal lines on your face for an hour after you remove your mask, it isn't doing shit for you as a healthy person.

If you are sick, however, that's a different story. The mask prevents droplets from being spewed out of your mouth at 120km/hr (70mph for the heathens) when you sneeze.

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