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Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

japantimes.co.jp

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Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#271

Post by eanzenberg »

objektif wrote: post #267
SiVal wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with every point you're making, so I wonder if it isn't just one big factor: lots of people routinely put on masks at the first suspicion that they might be sick, even before they're sure. They just go ahead and do it just in case. And they do this all the time, so there's no delay due to self-consciousness or unfamiliarity or having to go buy a mask. It's just ordinary life. Like taking shoes off in the hous…

But we are being told that masks don't hep with prevention. Do you mean that sick ones do that not to spread?

Masks absolutely help. You are told otherwise for a whole other reason: to stop hoarding masks.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#272

Post by narogab »

Most people assume that the various governments' published statistics are accurate. They also often implicitly assume that the various statistical measures are consistent across nations. Are these reasonable assumptions given the politics of the various countries?

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#273

Post by barry-cotter »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #266
barry-cotter wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They said masks aren’t effective at stopping people getting sick. That’s misinformation. If they weren’t effective at reducing infection healthcare workers wouldn’t wear them. Saying there aren’t enough for healthcare workers isn’t. Save respirators and surgical masks for healthcare workers. Wear a mask if you’re going outside even if it’s just a tshirt covering your face.

>If they weren’t effective at reducing infection healthcare workers wouldn’t wear them Yes, they would. The healthcare worker may already be sick, and are regularly closely interacting with people that have compromised immune systems. An illness that wouldn't slow down a nurse may kill a patient.

If we agree that masks slow the spread of disease from and to wearers then we are in clear disagreement with the Surgeon General. Masks work and the general populace should be encouraged to wear makeshift masks until such time as there are enough surgical masks for everybody or the crisis is over.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#274

Post by armada651 »

objektif wrote: post #267
SiVal wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with every point you're making, so I wonder if it isn't just one big factor: lots of people routinely put on masks at the first suspicion that they might be sick, even before they're sure. They just go ahead and do it just in case. And they do this all the time, so there's no delay due to self-consciousness or unfamiliarity or having to go buy a mask. It's just ordinary life. Like taking shoes off in the hous…

But we are being told that masks don't hep with prevention. Do you mean that sick ones do that not to spread?

The recommendation is not to use masks unless you are sick.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#275

Post by lonelappde »

adev_ wrote: post #78

Not so surprising. You have also the same outliers with Hong Kong and Taiwan. - In Japan, people naturally respect social distancing. Touching someone is considered rude, everyone bows instead of shaking hands and nobody kiss. - Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others. They do that since way before Cornavirus and on voluntary based. - Washing hands is common, being clean (bath cult…

Interesting. One of the themes of the classic Japanese film Ponyo is how separating elders from the rest of society is bad for both.

And Japan has strong laws requiring filial care for elders.

Anyway, sequestering elders isn't uniquely Japanese. USA is famous for that.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#276

Post by barry-cotter »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #243
maps7 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others. They do that since way before Cornavirus and on voluntary based. We're told that masks do not work

If you are sick, masks are an effective way of preventing others from catching it. If you are healthy, masks do not prevent you from getting sick. It's a fairly easy misunderstanding to make.

A hazmat suit is better than a respirator. A respirator is better than a surgical mask. A surgical mask is better than a tea towel/dish cloth. A tea towel is better than a T-shirt. A T-shirt is better than a scarf. A scarf is far better than nothing.

Nothing short of a hazmat suit will prevent you from catching the virus but all of the above will reduce the chances of you catching it. There aren’t enough respirator, or indeed surgical masks for healthcare workers, never mind everyone else. But we should not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#277

Post by lonelappde »

adventured wrote: post #216
adev_ wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do you know these are the real reasons? I don't pretend to know, that's my personal thoughts, I think they are. I am rather often in Japan for family reasons. > Can't imagine the rest of first world countries are completely shut down and here Japan is just doing fine with 1000s of ppl picnicking etc. I personally think one of the main reason is currently the exposition (or non-exposition) of the elders. They account…

> They [elders] account for over 95% of the victims. Half the most severe cases in France are under 60 years of age. It begs the question of why Japan is also not seeing anything like that. Deaths are certainly one thing to consider in terms of age, however if Japan had a mass spread of the virus I would expect to see a lot of ICU cases regardless. Even when countries aren't testing properly, the intensive care cases…

(www.begthequestion.info)

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#278

Post by autokad »

adev_ wrote: post #78

Not so surprising. You have also the same outliers with Hong Kong and Taiwan. - In Japan, people naturally respect social distancing. Touching someone is considered rude, everyone bows instead of shaking hands and nobody kiss. - Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others. They do that since way before Cornavirus and on voluntary based. - Washing hands is common, being clean (bath cult…

I feel like we (the US) do a lot better just by advising the elderly to stay home, give them resources (free delivery, services brought to their home, etc) much more effectively then basically throwing our economy in a 40% GDP drop shitter.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#280

Post by lonelappde »

guscost wrote: post #239
luhn wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Western countries hand-shaking is limited almost exclusively to business I can't speak for all Western countries, but in the US I shake hands with every new person I meet, whether in a professional or social settings. I'll also shake hands as a greeting for acquaintances I'm not close with. (As opposed to a hug for close acquaintances.)

Which city? This is not at all ordinary in my experience (at least in social settings - it’s normal in business settings).

Parent was probably referring to outgoing people who don't spend most of their time in the Internet.
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