Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#71

Post by Nursie » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 7:40 PM UTC

clarry wrote: post #38

jasode wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For those saying you've never been helped by your CS degree, [...] You've seriously never bothered thinking about, say, algorithmic complexity? There are lots of successful working programmers that will never need to deal with "algorithmic complexity" because "programming" encompasses a very wide spectrum of skills. I attempted to explain a rough categorization of 2 groups: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12079…

And, on the flip side, you don't need a goddamn degree to think about algorithmic complexity. It's pretty basic stuff at the level most developers ever get to care about it.

You don't need a "goddamn" degree to learn any single thing you can learn on a degree, and this applies to pretty much any degree you can think of, the books are available, as is online research.

The point is during a degree you are lead to some topics and guided through them.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#72

Post by Nursie » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 7:41 PM UTC

jasode wrote: post #29

Nursie wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure it's that apt... maybe it is, so long as you grant that architrctural study can help you design and build better houses. Sure, you can get the knowledge in other ways, and sure, some of the houses built by people who haven't studied architecture are great too. Some aren't though, and their builders could have benefitted from a bit of theory ahead of time. It's almost more like the relationship between ma…

>For those saying you've never been helped by your CS degree, [...] You've seriously never bothered thinking about, say, algorithmic complexity? There are lots of successful working programmers that will never need to deal with "algorithmic complexity" because "programming" encompasses a very wide spectrum of skills. I attempted to explain a rough categorization of 2 groups: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12079…

If your COBOL veteran hasn't got at least some grasp of complexity, he's a pretty poor programmer. In fact that applies regardless of the language.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#73

Post by Nursie » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 7:45 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #56

jasode wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the era of the Intel 80486 processor. All of us cared a hell of a lot about both algorithmic and data structure efficiency back then since computers were so feeble compared to today's systems; In the ancient 1990s, A COBOL programmer writing "green screen" terminal apps to hit a database on an IBM 360 mainframe doesn't deploy to 80486 desktop pcs. Even today, if you type "COBOL programmer" into monster.com to search…

In the 90s, I wrote C and Fortran for DEC VAX and Stratus VOS mainframes. Even then our major concerns weren’t “algorithmic complexity” and being able to reverse a binary tree on the whiteboard.

You don't need to reverse a binary tree on a whiteboard, but you should have some idea of the complexity of what you're writing, or you'll write crap. Even in a CRUD context.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#74

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 8:03 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #72

jasode wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For those saying you've never been helped by your CS degree, [...] You've seriously never bothered thinking about, say, algorithmic complexity? There are lots of successful working programmers that will never need to deal with "algorithmic complexity" because "programming" encompasses a very wide spectrum of skills. I attempted to explain a rough categorization of 2 groups: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12079…

If your COBOL veteran hasn't got at least some grasp of complexity, he's a pretty poor programmer. In fact that applies regardless of the language.

[deleted]

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#75

Post by viklove » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 9:00 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #15

netsharc wrote: post #3

A CS prof of mine said studying CS to later do programming is like studying architecture to later be a house builder. I find it an apt comparison.

Maybe so, but I'd still rather have my house built by someone who studied architecture, because they will have unique insights in the moment that others would miss. Also you get a better house if the architect who designed it also builds it. And eventually the house builder gets enough experience to become a much more useful architect because they know what's actually possible and what is purely academic.

I think the point the original commenter is missing, is that in tech the architect and the builder is usually (almost always) the same person. We don't have the same separation between architects and carpenters that the construction industry does.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#76

Post by friendlybus » Sun, Mar 22, 2020, 12:03 AM UTC

imedadel wrote: post #60

friendlybus wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also less approachable for those that do know more than the current class being taught. I had been privately and self taught, going to a CS degree and learning the professor's dry and mangled way of teaching client-server architecture was like derailing a train I had been building for years and trying to drag it all the way back to the start.

Did you finish though? I've got a year and a half remaining and I'm working on some side projects and thinking about not finishing the remaining year... PS. We have to study PHP and "AI" next year here. And the final semester is an unpaid project at some local company.

No I quit and moved to the other side of the world for a woman.

Do the side projects pay and have a future? Otherwise enjoy graduating with connections. You can quit future jobs to start a side project anytime (assuming no responsibilities).

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#77

Post by tropo » Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 11:03 PM UTC

bombingwinger wrote: post #24

tropo wrote: post #2

People hit calculus, which is almost never needed in the job market, and they give up. Lots of math and hard science is in the major. It's not an alternative to the humanities and liberal arts and languages. It's done in addition, which just isn't fair at all. Students take two or three semesters of calculus-based physics, three semesters of calculus, two semesters of discrete math, engineering statistics, linear alg…

So you’re likely more educated. What’s your argument? CS majors come out of the gate making 100K, can change companies whenever they want, are mission-critical assets wherever they go, and work in ivory towers.

I got through the hazing ritual, so that works great for me personally. There is far less competition for my job.

For the benefit of society, or the country, or the world, or something like that... the situation is terrible. We're wasting years of human lives on unproductive education. We're excluding capable people from CS careers. We're driving up the cost of software.

If we trimmed out the non-CS stuff, people could do combined BS+MS degrees in the time that we currently spend on BS degrees. The extra CS education would be valuable to the people and to their employers.