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Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

newyorker.com

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Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#141

Post by craftinator »

taeric wrote: post #69
javagram wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the physical proximity of Japan and China (30% of tourists to Japan are Chinese) the fact that Japanese hospitals haven’t been overwhelmed like Italy suggests the virus is not spreading as rapidly there. (Testing may also be a concern but lack of testing cannot hide overwhelmed hospitals).

But why? I have pushed my air quality hypothesis. What other reasons are there. And you can't just claim social distancing. Unless they have shut down their trains, where people are literally packed in, that just doesn't fly. (So, have they?)

There are a number of thoughts I have, but I'm puzzled as well. My first explanation is that the Japanese are simply more hyegeinic than most other countries I've been to. Fastidious is the word that comes to mind. They wash hands often, wear clean clothes, wear masks or stay home when sick, don't shake hands or touch often.

Second explanation that comes to mind is that they tend to be just healthier than other countries. They have low obesity, exercise correctly and routinely, walk and ride bikes to get where they go, and do all of this even when elderly. The counterpoint to this is that they have a really high smoking population.

Source: I lived there for two years.

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#142

Post by undersuit »

lioeters wrote: post #119
staticautomatic wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware of any viruses not killed by high heat?

According to an article on Quora, "At What Temperature Do Viruses Die?" ¹, for what it's worth: > All [known] strains of virus can be inactivated at 70 °C. For reference, an autoclave used for sterilization is around 121 °C. > A minimum temperature range to inactivate most virus is 48°C to 60°C. Some virus still able to survive at temperature below 60°C e.g. adenoviruses(dsDNA naked virus) relatively thermostable, it…

Viruses exist where there is life, it's not a mound I'm willing to die on, but it's accurate here on Earth. There is life that lives in temperatures higher than 70 °C, therefore there are viruses that can survive in temperatures higher than 70 °C: http://www.rcn.montana.edu/Publications/Pdf/2005/4_18Young.p...

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#143

Post by gnusty_gnurc »

selimthegrim wrote: post #111
gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When china went aggressive on the virus people looked at it as draconian measures because of the ideological lens, not looking further to see the measures were absolutely necessary by scientific fact. None of this would have been necessary if the doctors reporting the Wuhan virus weren’t killed for presenting bad news. There’s clear evidence that the Chinese waited far too long to start acting and alerting others.…

Who killed what doctors in Wuhan

I misspoke, there’s no evidence I’m aware of that they were killed. But given China’s history of abusing critical citizens, it wouldn’t be surprising. What’s more accurate is that doctors who spoke up about the impending disaster died of the disease (perhaps unnecessarily) after being censured for their free speech.

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#144

Post by bitxbit »

ZhuanXia wrote: post #7

The shameful lies about masks not working for civilians will kill thousands. Evidence based medicine (over the modern Bayesian Science-based medicine) has paralyzed our health officials from making common sense calls off priors. Homemade masks appear to be reasonably effective. The official response should be to make some form of improvised mask required when out of home, and ration regular mask for health care worke…

It came directly from the Surgeon General himself. That’s the part that shocks me. It’s basically someone saying don’t use condoms because it’s not 100%.

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#146

Post by ithkuil »

undersuit wrote: post #142
lioeters wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to an article on Quora, "At What Temperature Do Viruses Die?" ¹, for what it's worth: > All [known] strains of virus can be inactivated at 70 °C. For reference, an autoclave used for sterilization is around 121 °C. > A minimum temperature range to inactivate most virus is 48°C to 60°C. Some virus still able to survive at temperature below 60°C e.g. adenoviruses(dsDNA naked virus) relatively thermostable, it…

Viruses exist where there is life, it's not a mound I'm willing to die on, but it's accurate here on Earth. There is life that lives in temperatures higher than 70 °C, therefore there are viruses that can survive in temperatures higher than 70 °C: http://www.rcn.montana.edu/Publications/Pdf/2005/4_18Young.p...

There can be some or many kinds of viruses that survive under all sorts of conditions, by that doesn't necessarily imply that a particular virus does so as well.

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#147

Post by taeric »

fspeech wrote: post #145
taeric wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen the trains? No amount of mask would stop some spread there.

Why isn't that the evidence that mask is effective?

It would need testing to show they don't have a prevalence of "mild" cases. Not to mention we should have numbers on how often they wear masks. Last I saw, it was not everyone that did that.

Edit for reference: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E7kor5nHtZQ

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#148

Post by taeric »

craftinator wrote: post #141
taeric wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why? I have pushed my air quality hypothesis. What other reasons are there. And you can't just claim social distancing. Unless they have shut down their trains, where people are literally packed in, that just doesn't fly. (So, have they?)

There are a number of thoughts I have, but I'm puzzled as well. My first explanation is that the Japanese are simply more hyegeinic than most other countries I've been to. Fastidious is the word that comes to mind. They wash hands often, wear clean clothes, wear masks or stay home when sick, don't shake hands or touch often. Second explanation that comes to mind is that they tend to be just healthier than other count…

The first one could explain why it isn't spreading there. Without testing, hard to know if that is accurate. Reports from other threads supports that it is there, but not severe cases. (Sadly, anecdotes...)

Second is also tougher to square. The risk pool is supposedly older people, per reports from Italy. But, that doesn't seem to square with age profiles of Japanese. So??

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#149

Post by fspeech »

taeric wrote: post #147
fspeech wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't that the evidence that mask is effective?

It would need testing to show they don't have a prevalence of "mild" cases. Not to mention we should have numbers on how often they wear masks. Last I saw, it was not everyone that did that. Edit for reference: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E7kor5nHtZQ

80% compliance would eliminate flu outbreaks and flu is upper respiratory. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30229968

The New Yorker article we are supposedly discussing literally says the coronavirus is not very efficient even in hospital settings.

I am familiar with crowded trains in East Asia. Your video does not have time marker so I assume it is not taken recently.

Re: Keeping the coronavirus from infecting healthcare workers

#150

Post by undersuit »

ithkuil wrote: post #146
undersuit wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Viruses exist where there is life, it's not a mound I'm willing to die on, but it's accurate here on Earth. There is life that lives in temperatures higher than 70 °C, therefore there are viruses that can survive in temperatures higher than 70 °C: http://www.rcn.montana.edu/Publications/Pdf/2005/4_18Young.p...

There can be some or many kinds of viruses that survive under all sorts of conditions, by that doesn't necessarily imply that a particular virus does so as well.

The question was of any virus not a particular virus.
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